Wall bag punching

[Calm Intention]

Hi,

I'm not formally trained(mostly just do combo kicks, and weapons training exercises- about 7 different ones), but I've had an affinity for Wing Chun for some time- especially for some of its more esoteric aspects(sticky hand, trapping, etc). I also appreciate its geometry concepts of motion, attack, and defense.

Regarding heavy bag, Wing Chun dummy, and wall bag training(which caught my eye), I created what I believe something original(maybe) with regard to the use of the edge of a wall(or even between a door-way), to train what you might call a variation of both heavy bag training and Wing Chun dummy. These are more 'focus' exercises(because I'm not using any padding), and I don't whack the wall.

I basically throw a succession of combinations of elbows(back smash and inward hook), hand strikes that emmulate the use of double stick, and double knife, like hits, along with double hand strikes alternating inside and outside(high and low), on each side of the joint of the walls-- I'm also constantly shuffling my feet from left forward to right forward, off center right, to off center left.
I literally get in almost every kind of angle possible- only no strength(no impact), only speed. I should set up pads though, that would benefit me much more.

If that was descriptive enough, let me know your opinion. Hope it helps.

 

[ed-swckf]

Sure the heavy bag is important, check this.
http://www.ewtosanmarino.com/WT_FILE/video/Mov00038.mpg (Save Target As)

I don't know what it is about that guy but it puts a smile on my face!

 

[fightingfat]

Yeah wall bag training is good, what does everyone have filling their wall bags?

I use chick peas for the top section to replicate the boney areas of the face. The second and third section I fill with sharp sand packed into a plastic bag (to avoid the dust problems encountered with this sort of filling).

I have a bag like this-

Which has all the strikes and angles marked on it, which is really useful!

They are avaliable to buy here along with an excellent wall bag training DVD!

 

[yipman_sifu]

Hi,

I'm not formally trained(mostly just do combo kicks, and weapons training exercises- about 7 different ones), but I've had an affinity for Wing Chun for some time- especially for some of its more esoteric aspects(sticky hand, trapping, etc). I also appreciate its geometry concepts of motion, attack, and defense.

Regarding heavy bag, Wing Chun dummy, and wall bag training(which caught my eye), I created what I believe something original(maybe) with regard to the use of the edge of a wall(or even between a door-way), to train what you might call a variation of both heavy bag training and Wing Chun dummy. These are more 'focus' exercises(because I'm not using any padding), and I don't whack the wall.

I basically throw a succession of combinations of elbows(back smash and inward hook), hand strikes that emmulate the use of double stick, and double knife, like hits, along with double hand strikes alternating inside and outside(high and low), on each side of the joint of the walls-- I'm also constantly shuffling my feet from left forward to right forward, off center right, to off center left.
I literally get in almost every kind of angle possible- only no strength(no impact), only speed. I should set up pads though, that would benefit me much more.

If that was descriptive enough, let me know your opinion. Hope it helps.

Everthing helps my friend, especially if you take it as a street aspect, you can be creative in order to stay alive. Being a good weapon user is the best thing you might have in the street, because hands combat needs somehow to be trained in a martial art school or a boxing club. Still training to apply your theories is much more better that just thinking about it. Yeah man that's it.

 

[ed-swckf]

I use chick peas for the top section to replicate the boney areas of the face. The second and third section I fill with sharp sand packed into a plastic bag (to avoid the dust problems encountered with this sort of filling).

I have a bag like this-

Which has all the strikes and angles marked on it, which is really useful!

They are avaliable to buy here along with an excellent wall bag training DVD!

I don't need a james sinclair dvd when i have a sifu

 

[Calm Intention]

Everthing helps my friend, especially if you take it as a street aspect, you can be creative in order to stay alive. Being a good weapon user is the best thing you might have in the street, because hands combat needs somehow to be trained in a martial art school or a boxing club. Still training to apply your theories is much more better that just thinking about it. Yeah man that's it.

Agree on all points- especially about getting myself into a school and sparring. Smacking air molecules don't cut it.

 

[fightingfat]

I don't need a james sinclair dvd when i have a sifu

A Sifu is always going to be the best option!

 

[ed-swckf]

A Sifu is always going to be the best option!

You're not wrong.

 

[Kensai]

I don't know what it is about that guy but it puts a smile on my face!

Funnily enough mate, me too. :lol2:

 

[monji112000]

Maybe I am slow but how can punching the wall bag help with Wing Chun?

I will ask my sifu if he thinks it will help.. but honestly a heavy bag is much better. JMO


For one, you can't hit it with full power. If you even turn your horse slightly you are going to put a whole in the wall. (LOL thats what I did with something similar).


Secondly you arn't going to need fists of steel in a fight. You hands are going to get hurt no matter what. The power of wing Chun isn't in the knuckles or the wrist so what the heck makes this any better than a good heavy bag?

I could see hanging it on a heavy bag that way you could use full power. This to me looks like those Ratan Rings, it seems like it will help.. but if you think about it logically it won't help at all.

 

[fightingfat]

A wall bag helps you develop a punch instead of a push.

 

[Kensai]

Think I could do with getting a wall bag... Hmmm...

 

[fightingfat]

Essential WC equipment dude!

 

[Kensai]

Essential WC equipment dude!

Yeah, just thinking where to put it. We're moving house in the next month or two, moving into rental accom before emigrating, so drilling holes in rented walls, ain't good juju... *scratches head*....

 

[fightingfat]

Nail it to a tree in the garden?

An outside wall?

 

[Kensai]

Nail it to a tree in the garden?

An outside wall?

Damn you're good. :ultracool Poor tree!! THWACK! THWACK! AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Think I'm gonna get one of James Sinclairs, will ask Zubbir tonight! Cheers FF.

 

[ed-swckf]

Maybe I am slow but how can punching the wall bag help with Wing Chun?

I will ask my sifu if he thinks it will help.. but honestly a heavy bag is much better. JMO

It helps by developing correct structure and allignment of the attack, builds up an ability to add energy in the last inch, and it also adds conditioning. If your sifu doesn't think it has any validity then i would personally question why. A heavy bag is also good but a wall bag should surfice your main needs in a more compact manner.

For one, you can't hit it with full power. If you even turn your horse slightly you are going to put a whole in the wall. (LOL thats what I did with something similar).

You can hit it with full power when the correct training is utilised, its something you build up to and remember that the wing chun punch is relaxed until just before or immediatel on contact when you add the energy and dynamic tension.

I have never hit the wall in all my time of training on a wall bag, it seems relatively hard to do i'm quite shocked you have done it. Your target shouldn't change even if you do turn your stance, the turn is to generate power and move you. If you are unable to control where your punch is going whilst turning then it shows a poor appreciation of the center line, that is something that you should have and continue to train with the wall bag.

Secondly you arn't going to need fists of steel in a fight. You hands are going to get hurt no matter what. The power of wing Chun isn't in the knuckles or the wrist so what the heck makes this any better than a good heavy bag?

it doesn't train fists of steel it does however apply conditioning to the hands to reduce the risk of your hands getting hurt. You are right the power of wing chun isn't in the knuckles or wrist but if those aren't trained to work in the correct manner then you will risk injury, be aware that whilst they aren't the root of power they can be the weak link that looses power. The end projectile has to be equal to the task of the power put behind it.

Heavy bags don't have the same form for conditioning but you don't see validity in that so thats no problem for you. Wall bags are also compact and give you all the training you need, its not about them being better its about them suiting the task. If you want to use a heavy bag then fine, no problem with that but why is a heavy bag any better than a wall bag for the training needed?

I could see hanging it on a heavy bag that way you could use full power. This to me looks like those Ratan Rings, it seems like it will help.. but if you think about it logically it won't help at all.

Ratan rings can be vaugely useful if you use them correctly but firstly you need to get one the correct size which pretty much everyone doesn't. I personally don't ever use them but in certain circumstances they can have uses.

Hanging a wall bag on a heavy bag is a humerous idea, a wall bag can be hit with full power and it also trains you to make that full power come from relaxation. Its a useful peice of apperatus when you understand what you are using it for and it really does help. I'd be interested to know how you are generating your power in your wing chun.

Hope this gives an insight to your questions.

 

[Kensai]

It helps by developing correct structure and allignment of the attack, builds up an ability to add energy in the last inch, and it also adds conditioning. If your sifu doesn't think it has any validity then i would personally question why. A heavy bag is also good but a wall bag should surfice your main needs in a more compact manner.




You can hit it with full power when the correct training is utilised, its something you build up to and remember that the wing chun punch is relaxed until just before or immediatel on contact when you add the energy and dynamic tension.

I have never hit the wall in all my time of training on a wall bag, it seems relatively hard to do i'm quite shocked you have done it. Your target shouldn't change even if you do turn your stance, the turn is to generate power and move you. If you are unable to control where your punch is going whilst turning then it shows a poor appreciation of the center line, that is something that you should have and continue to train with the wall bag.




it doesn't train fists of steel it does however apply conditioning to the hands to reduce the risk of your hands getting hurt. You are right the power of wing chun isn't in the knuckles or wrist but if those aren't trained to work in the correct manner then you will risk injury, be aware that whilst they aren't the root of power they can be the weak link that looses power. The end projectile has to be equal to the task of the power put behind it.

Heavy bags don't have the same form for conditioning but you don't see validity in that so thats no problem for you. Wall bags are also compact and give you all the training you need, its not about them being better its about them suiting the task. If you want to use a heavy bag then fine, no problem with that but why is a heavy bag any better than a wall bag for the training needed?



Ratan rings can be vaugely useful if you use them correctly but firstly you need to get one the correct size which pretty much everyone doesn't. I personally don't ever use them but in certain circumstances they can have uses.

Hanging a wall bag on a heavy bag is a humerous idea, a wall bag can be hit with full power and it also trains you to make that full power come from relaxation. Its a useful peice of apperatus when you understand what you are using it for and it really does help. I'd be interested to know how you are generating your power in your wing chun.

Hope this gives an insight to your questions.

Smack on the money.

 

[monji112000]

It helps by developing correct structure and allignment of the attack, builds up an ability to add energy in the last inch, and it also adds conditioning.

Any target will help develop correct structure. Alignment.. hmm I would say using a human or a wooden dummy would help more. Energy at the last inch? I will leave that one alone.. Seeing that we will for sure disagree drastically.

If your sifu doesn't think it has any validity then i would personally question why.

If he will answer my question, I am sure he will explain himself.
The problem with a wall bag is that the wall doesn't “give” way. its like kicking a tree, it can really hurt your legs.

You can hit it with full power when the correct training is utilised, its something you build up to and remember that the wing chun punch is relaxed until just before or immediatel on contact when you add the energy and dynamic tension.

The only punches you can use are chain punches on the wall bag. I can train my chain punches better with a heavy bag.JMO

I have never hit the wall in all my time of training on a wall bag, it seems relatively hard to do i'm quite shocked you have done it.

Actually i was refering to when I first started WC I purchased one at a local Kung FU store. I hung it on a wall . I was just learning how to turn my horse and I made a small dent in the wall. I wasn't very good at turning my horse then, I am sure I could do much worse with other punches like B&A ect.. Maybe your style of Wing Chun doesn't use any other punches only Chain punches. Then I guess this would be perfect.

it doesn't train fists of steel it does however apply conditioning to the hands to reduce the risk of your hands getting hurt.

You can train your wrist and knuckles for impact with a pair of MMA gloves and a strong heavy bag.

why is a heavy bag any better than a wall bag for the training needed?

You can work on 75% of our techniques with full power. It will help with cardio, with making sure you sit on your horse with strong punches ect..
Thai heavy bags are the best!
You can hit full power for all your punches, kicks, and even low shin kicks. You can practice upper cuts and hooks. If you want to condition your shins, you can do Thai round kicks (its not wing Chun but its good for conditioning. ECT..

Ratan rings can be vaugely useful if you use them correctly but firstly you need to get one the correct size which pretty much everyone doesn't. I personally don't ever use them but in certain circumstances they can have uses.

The Rings force you to have in correct bong sao and tan sao. your power isn't going straight when you have to keep them from falling off your hands.

I'd be interested to know how you are generating your power in your wing chun.

Each form focuses on different aspects of generating power.
First form the horse, second the hips, third the shoulder/back.
You don't need to learn all the forms to learn those aspects.
actually I would use the wall bag if I can find a logical reason for it. I was thinking about ordering a speed bag aswell.
I respect your views, I was looking for tangible reason for them. It still seems like a heavy bag is better if you have the room.

 

[Kensai]

If you've got the room, why not have both? Variety of training is as important as the training you do. Although I don't own either, I have had a quick go on a wall bag, thought it was pretty different and was no more or less valid really than a heavy bag, that said, if I had the room for both, I'd do it. Mind you, in an ideal world, I'd have a spare room dedicated to MA, a dojo that doubled as a spare room.

It's a bit like saying you have to have either/or, why not have both? :ultracool