How does age change what you need out of martial arts?

[skribs]

It's been brought up in a few recent threads. What your goals are in martial arts changes over time. Why kids should take martial arts vs. why adults should take martial arts. There seems to be an idea that the benefits of martial arts is different for people in different age demographics.

So I'm curious for your perspectives on...

1. What should an instructor or a curriculum do different for martial artists in different age brackets?
2. What benefits does martial arts provide to people in different age brackets?
3. (Aside from physical limitations that come with age) why is it different?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hmm...I'll have a go. Haven't thought some of this out, so I might ramble (surprise!).

1. If a curriculum has to cover a wide range of ages, it needs some flexibility. Requiring jumping kicks of 60+ limits which people can work with that curriculum. As does requiring hard falls. Instructors need to be ready to make intelligent and reasonable decisions about how flexible to be in their teaching and requirements. For me, that means things like allowing some folks to NOT do some kicks if they have physical limitations (whether that's for age or for other reasons), and that to not limit their progress. It also means having realistic expectations of the falls folks can take. I don't expect of a new 45-year-old student what I was able to do in my 20's. It also means - in the other direction - being willing to alter the curriculum for kids, if that's needed. Some of what I teach isn't really a good idea for 6-year-old joints, and I don't trust their motor control for some of it, either. And kids and adults don't learn the same way, so adjusting how you teach to match the audience is important. I also expect most adults (based on my experience) to be more cerebral about their training after a certain point - most kids never get all that cerebral about it.
2. I think it's mostly the same benefits, but in different ways and perhaps different degrees. Socialization, building confidence, fitness, a sense of belonging. One thing that is different for me is that when I teach kids/teens, I put more emphasis on the decision-making skills and such, because they're still forming that skillset. There's still some personal development focus with adults, but I've always put more into that with kids and teens.
3. There's also the maturity issue. While most adults want to have fun with their training, that might be a primary driver for youth. And, as I said before, they also learn differently.

I'll leave it there, and expound more as others chime in.

 

[jobo]

It's been brought up in a few recent threads. What your goals are in martial arts changes over time. Why kids should take martial arts vs. why adults should take martial arts. There seems to be an idea that the benefits of martial arts is different for people in different age demographics.

So I'm curious for your perspectives on...

1. What should an instructor or a curriculum do different for martial artists in different age brackets?
2. What benefits does martial arts provide to people in different age brackets?
3. (Aside from physical limitations that come with age) why is it different?

I don't think age is the defining factor, rather what should an instructor do for people of different abilities, is a much better question , because other side you run the risk of stereo typing different age ranges in ability categories, irrespective of the abilities they actually have,

I've mentioned before about when I tried to sign up for a soccer class at my local sports centre and had some 23 yo, snot, who had not even met me saying you are to old ,people like you have to play " walking soccer" with the other old folk, no discusion, !

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't think age is the defining factor, rather what should an instructor do for people of different abilities, is a much better question , because other side you run the risk of stereo typing different age ranges in ability categories, irrespective of the abilities they actually have,

I've mentioned before about when I tried to sign up for a soccer class at my local sports centre and had some 23 yo, snot, who had not even met me saying you are to old ,people like you have to play " walking soccer" with the other old folk, no discusion, !

That was part of what I was trying to get in there. I’ve had students with joint issues that limited kicking, and one of them (at my instructor’s school) was in her 20’s (hip/pelvis injuries from a major auto accident). The adjustments I made for her are similar to some I make for the Hobbit (her hips are a congenital issue) and made for an older student at my instructor’s school.

 

[pdg]

That was part of what I was trying to get in there. I’ve had students with joint issues that limited kicking, and one of them (at my instructor’s school) was in her 20’s (hip/pelvis injuries from a major auto accident). The adjustments I made for her are similar to some I make for the Hobbit (her hips are a congenital issue) and made for an older student at my instructor’s school.

It can go the other way though...

There are some of us 'old guys' that are willing and able to go harder and faster than some people in their 20s

I keep hearing stuff like "do 10 burpees, if you're over 30 do 5".

I just pretend my hearing is failing - comes with age don't it

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It can go the other way though...

There are some of us 'old guys' that are willing and able to go harder and faster than some people in their 20s

I keep hearing stuff like "do 10 burpees, if you're over 30 do 5".

I just pretend my hearing is failing - comes with age don't it

Agreed. I’m not as intense as I was at 30, but more intense still than most of the students I run into back at the old school.

 

[dvcochran]

It's been brought up in a few recent threads. What your goals are in martial arts changes over time. Why kids should take martial arts vs. why adults should take martial arts. There seems to be an idea that the benefits of martial arts is different for people in different age demographics.

So I'm curious for your perspectives on...

1. What should an instructor or a curriculum do different for martial artists in different age brackets?
2. What benefits does martial arts provide to people in different age brackets?
3. (Aside from physical limitations that come with age) why is it different?

1.) Regarding adults (10 & over) I do not change curriculum and I do not change expectation. I do change to accommodate physical limitations and understand that some people regardless of age just can't go as hard, as high, or as fast. Children are a completely dynamic with very limited exceptions. I had a 5 year old who could have an adult conversation with anyone. And of course there are the 14-15 year old kids who struggle to hold attention through a single form.
2.) The first thing that comes to mind for the younger generation is competition. I loved it. Tons of benefits of done correctly. Sure us older folks can compete but not apple to apples. I firmly believe the mental benefits are there regardless of age. Of course the physical benefits are not as apparent in younger, marginally fit people, but they are huge for the unfit, overweight, etc... Range of motion is huge for us 50 plus folks.
3.) The body breaks down. Cartlidge goes away, muscles atrophy, yada, yada, yada. I can certainly tell when I take a break for a while and then start back. It seems harder each time but I feel much better when I get over the initial hump. Youth do not think about such things.

 

[marques]

Kid - self defence and physical activity, status...
Adult - Relaxation, flexibility, balance, flow state...
Soon - Health benefits will be the #1 criteria.

 

[mrt2]

OK, I will take give my 2 cents, as a person who did martial arts as a teenager, and now as a 52 year old.

As a younger teenager it was about
1. Overcoming fear
2. Fitness/weight loss
3. Having fun

And as an adult
1. Overcoming fear
2. Fitness and weight loss
3. Having fun

Now, the only thing that has changed is the nature of the fears. At age 14, I was still a little mentally scarred from begin bullied in middle school, and so my fear was of being bullied, humiliated, and getting hit. Obviously, that is not something I fear so much anymore as I am likely to call the police if someone I know now stalks me and threatens me with physical violence. So now the fears are, can I still compete at age 52? Can I still learn curiculum? Can I shake off the rust and stave off decay and atrophy before it is too late?

The rest is the same. I did MA in my teen years to get in better shape and lose some weight, and now I am an overweight middle aged man hoping to add to my arsenal of activities to keep me active and fit.

Finally, when I came back to MA, what sealed the deal was, it is more fun than, say, mindlessly running on a treadmill or execise bike. Sure, there are exercise classes that can have some of that, but real MA is still way more fun for me than say gym based kickboxing workout.

 

[JR 137]

My first stint was between 19-25 years of age. I always wanted to try karate, but honestly the only reason why I started was because my girlfriend at the time’s mother got a deal because she referred a ton of kids and parents from her daycare business. My then girlfriend, her two sisters, and her mother trained for free, I paid $25/month. The longest any of them trained was about 6 months. I went almost 7 years

In my 20s, I wanted to be a better fighter. I could hold my own beforehand, but I figured karate would be better. Not that I got into too many fights, but it was a good skill to have. Replacing sports I played in high school was an added benefit. After about a year or so, it was also about getting a black belt.

When I restarted a few months shy of 39 (I’m 42 now)...

Stress relief
Exercise
Stress relief
Having that fun I had in my 20s
Stress relief

Within a few months of starting up again, I’d add outdoing what I think I can do - pushing myself physically and perfecting what I’m learning. But stress relief is still my top reason. Nothing else I’ve ever done has gotten my mind off of everything else like karate has. When I’m there, the outside world doesn’t exist for an hour and a half.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My first stint was between 19-25 years of age. I always wanted to try karate, but honestly the only reason why I started was because my girlfriend at the time’s mother got a deal because she referred a ton of kids and parents from her daycare business. My then girlfriend, her two sisters, and her mother trained for free, I paid $25/month. The longest any of them trained was about 6 months. I went almost 7 years

In my 20s, I wanted to be a better fighter. I could hold my own beforehand, but I figured karate would be better. Not that I got into too many fights, but it was a good skill to have. Replacing sports I played in high school was an added benefit. After about a year or so, it was also about getting a black belt.

When I restarted a few months shy of 39 (I’m 42 now)...

Stress relief
Exercise
Stress relief
Having that fun I had in my 20s
Stress relief

Within a few months of starting up again, I’d add outdoing what I think I can do - pushing myself physically and perfecting what I’m learning. But stress relief is still my top reason. Nothing else I’ve ever done has gotten my mind off of everything else like karate has. When I’m there, the outside world doesn’t exist for an hour and a half.

The hardest time I ever spent in my life was when I started thinking about the outside world when I was at the dojo.

 

[dvcochran]

The hardest time I ever spent in my life was when I started thinking about the outside world when I was at the dojo.

Yea, that is a perfect time to get knocked out.

 

[JR 137]

The hardest time I ever spent in my life was when I started thinking about the outside world when I was at the dojo.

About a year ago, my mother asked me why I like karate so much. I responded “I like to beat people up and get beaten up.” She had that look and said “why can’t you ever give me a straight answer?” So I said “ok, I’ll give you an honest answer...”

“When I’m in the dojo, the outside world doesn’t exist for the hour and a half I’m there twice a week. You’re not sick, my father’s not a psychopath, my wife doesn’t nag, the girls don’t ignore me, and so on. I don’t have time to think about any of the things that drive me crazy when someone’s going to kick me in the head or punch me in the stomach. It’s just me there without any baggage. It’s the only thing that I truly do for me and only me.” She got it.

That’s the stress relief part of my previous post. Finding inner peace through violence

 

[Gerry Seymour]

About a year ago, my mother asked me why I like karate so much. I responded “I like to beat people up and get beaten up.” She had that look and said “why can’t you ever give me a straight answer?” So I said “ok, I’ll give you an honest answer...”

“When I’m in the dojo, the outside world doesn’t exist for the hour and a half I’m there twice a week. You’re not sick, my father’s not a psychopath, my wife doesn’t nag, the girls don’t ignore me, and so on. I don’t have time to think about any of the things that drive me crazy when someone’s going to kick me in the head or punch me in the stomach. It’s just me there without any baggage. It’s the only thing that I truly do for me and only me.” She got it.

That’s the stress relief part of my previous post. Finding inner peace through violence

I love that - well stated!

With the exception of a short period in my late 30's, I have always felt the same way about my MA training. When I was traveling for work 4-5 days a week, I could go in on Saturday (after landing on Friday at 11:05 PM) and somebody would obligingly try to punch me or tackle me or something. And for 90 minutes, work didn't exist. The bad time was in my early 40's, when stepping into the dojo didn't disconnect my brain. In every pause in training (waiting my turn for an exercise, when my instructor was explaining a drill, etc.), my brain would remind me of the things that were stressing me - money, a failing business, etc. That's the only time in my life I didn't enjoy my training.

 

[now disabled]

For me

Although I was on the mat recently (I enjoyed but I am suffering for it ) I miss the peace.

As has been said within the dojo the outside world did not matter what mattered was the here and the now. I guess a simpler world.

 

[JR 137]

For me

Although I was on the mat recently (I enjoyed but I am suffering for it ) I miss the peace.

As has been said within the dojo the outside world did not matter what mattered was the here and the now. I guess a simpler world.

Yup. It’s that whole “being in the moment” thing. If you’re mentally anywhere else, it’s not going to be good.

 

[JR 137]

I love that - well stated!

With the exception of a short period in my late 30's, I have always felt the same way about my MA training. When I was traveling for work 4-5 days a week, I could go in on Saturday (after landing on Friday at 11:05 PM) and somebody would obligingly try to punch me or tackle me or something. And for 90 minutes, work didn't exist. The bad time was in my early 40's, when stepping into the dojo didn't disconnect my brain. In every pause in training (waiting my turn for an exercise, when my instructor was explaining a drill, etc.), my brain would remind me of the things that were stressing me - money, a failing business, etc. That's the only time in my life I didn't enjoy my training.

Karate has been the ONLY thing that’s completely taken me away. Exercise is great and all, and it relieves stress, but every other type of exercise didn’t do it for me. When I’d run, lift weights, etc., all I could think about was all the crap. The only other thing that takes me away is hitting the heavy bag, but I still think stuff up once in a while. It’s definitely the next best thing, but it’s still not karate. I’d imagine other MA would do the same thing, but I can’t say for certain.

If it didn’t take me away, I’d get frustrated like you did too.

 

[dvcochran]

Karate has been the ONLY thing that’s completely taken me away. Exercise is great and all, and it relieves stress, but every other type of exercise didn’t do it for me. When I’d run, lift weights, etc., all I could think about was all the crap. The only other thing that takes me away is hitting the heavy bag, but I still think stuff up once in a while. It’s definitely the next best thing, but it’s still not karate. I’d imagine other MA would do the same thing, but I can’t say for certain.

If it didn’t take me away, I’d get frustrated like you did too.

Both comments are excellent.

 

[now disabled]

The martial arts should be the great leveler as in it matters not one jot what you do in the outside world The high powered corporate dude is just the same as the guy who sweeps the streets. What matters is what happens here and now and if the big high powered dude hasn't left the ego at the door then in effect not is he letting himself down but he is letting the dojo down as his social ranking means nothing ...what matters is what he can do there and then.

I have seen it change peoples attitudes to life (I really have) making people actually accept that you have to accept that you may not be the "top dog" and you may have to accept that the guy who you look down on in the outside world is in fact just as good, as he has parked the ego applying himself and is putting in the time.

A good instructor to me is the person that cultivates that environment (yes he is the "leader") and makes it a level field where all get what they want and all get to follow the path they choose

 

[now disabled]

Karate has been the ONLY thing that’s completely taken me away. Exercise is great and all, and it relieves stress, but every other type of exercise didn’t do it for me. When I’d run, lift weights, etc., all I could think about was all the crap. The only other thing that takes me away is hitting the heavy bag, but I still think stuff up once in a while. It’s definitely the next best thing, but it’s still not karate. I’d imagine other MA would do the same thing, but I can’t say for certain.

If it didn’t take me away, I’d get frustrated like you did too.

Could it be that when in the dojo and studying you have to clear your mind of all else as in a way it is you reverting to a base instinct. Ok it not life and death (or it shouldn't be lol) however if your mind is not clear and in the here and now you might end up looking at the dojo ceiling lol which in effect means in another context you died. Thereby you get the peace because you have to clear your mind and know you have to before you enter the dojo?