How do your forms/katas progress?

[Gerry Seymour]

my instinct, from hard experiance, is being on the floor is a bad idea, if i end up there its a mistake and one that should quickly be rectified, maintain mobility at all costs. I could certainly take the opportunity to punch him from a kneeling position, but there's not stopping power. In the punch from that position, and his hands are likely in the way, mess up his nose perhaps, but id be better punching th groin if I've got a choice.. So punch , stand up and kick or just stand up and kick, the kicks the man stopper, , so the sooner the better.

you could certainly find your body position is less than idea for a kick, but the very skill of the soccer kick is adjusting your body position quickly so you can deliver, it matters not if the first kick lays him out, as long as its hard enough to knock the wind out of him, you then have plenty of time to deliver any num.e r of kicks from any position you choose,,
he is on the floor I'm stood up, that is not going to be allowed to change

Again, it's positional. I can kick quickly and powerfully with a soccer kick. Sometimes it's just not the right answer. If I'm in a deep stance, I'm not controlling him during the transition to the kick, and may not have access to a good kicking target. If the better control and/or target is for the punch, I'll punch. If it's for the kick, I'll kick (sometimes a soccer kick, sometimes a front kick).

 

[jobo]

Again, it's positional. I can kick quickly and powerfully with a soccer kick. Sometimes it's just not the right answer. If I'm in a deep stance, I'm not controlling him during the transition to the kick, and may not have access to a good kicking target. If the better control and/or target is for the punch, I'll punch. If it's for the kick, I'll kick (sometimes a soccer kick, sometimes a front kick).

from even a deep stance, you are always going to be up substantialy quicker than some one who is prone, unless you are unluck enough to meet one of those rare people who can just spring to their feet or your knees are nackered and even then you should be quicker by a bit.

any target is good, someone getting off the floor is going to present multiple targets, kick them up the rear, kick them in the ribs, the belly the head, take you pick, and as above you can do both, if you want to waste time with a less effective techneque

 

[Gerry Seymour]

from even a deep stance, you are always going to be up substantialy quicker than some one who is prone, unless you are unluck enough to meet one of those rare people who can just spring to their feet or your knees are nackered and even then you should be quicker by a bit.

Which has nothing to do with my post.

any target is good, someone getting off the floor is going to present multiple targets, kick them up the rear, kick them in the ribs, the belly the head, take you pick, and as above you can do both, if you want to waste time with a less effective techneque

Not so much. A weak kick to their leg is unlikely to be useful, unless it knocks them off-balance. Same for a weak kick to the trunk of the body, unless you get lucky. I'll take a well-aimed, punch with power over a weak-*** kick to a vague target any day.

You've played football/soccer - you know that people can get kicked (sometimes pretty hard) with no immediate effect, depending upon where they are hit.

 

[jobo]

Which has nothing to do with my post.


Not so much. A weak kick to their leg is unlikely to be useful, unless it knocks them off-balance. Same for a weak kick to the trunk of the body, unless you get lucky. I'll take a well-aimed, punch with power over a weak-*** kick to a vague target any day.

You've played football/soccer - you know that people can get kicked (sometimes pretty hard) with no immediate effect, depending upon where they are hit.

it has everything to do with your post, your claim was you cant kick from a deep stance, which is probably true, though I'm sure some people can, BUT you can address that issue quicker than your target can stop being a target, so it's if no consequence

why have you suddenly started with WEAK kick, there is no reason the kick will be WEAK, it may nit be full power, but that doesn't make it WEAK. a weak anything is generaly useless, if you punch and its WEAK, that doesn't help either, even then a weak kick will carry more energy than a weak punch, if both are at say 10% of max,, id invite you to try punching a soccerball against a kick to assertion the relative power of each

 

[Gerry Seymour]

it has everything to do with your post, your claim was you cant kick from a deep stance, which is probably true, though I'm sure some people can, BUT you can address that issue quicker than your target can stop being a target, so it's if no consequence

Only if you assume his only possible response is to stand up. Which is rarely the first response to someone standing over you who just knocked you down.

why have you suddenly started with WEAK kick, there is no reason the kick will be WEAK, it may nit be full power, but that doesn't make it WEAK. a weak anything is generaly useless, if you punch and its WEAK, that doesn't help either, even then a weak kick will carry more energy than a weak punch, if both are at say 10% of max,, id invite you to try punching a soccerball against a kick to assertion the relative power of each

If you take the time to set up a strong kick, you give up a chance to control. Sometimes that's the right choice, sometimes it's not. If I can't control AND set up a strong kick, I'll skip the weak kick (the one that's immediately available), and take the punch.

The soccer ball won't tell the whole story. You're forgetting surface area of the strike. But you've dragged this far enough off topic now. More than one person has pointed out that low punches like in that kata can have application. Continue your assertion that every kick in that situation is better than every punch. You'll continue to be wrong, but my pointing that out won't help you, so I'll let you have at it.

 

[jobo]

Only if you assume his only possible response is to stand up. Which is rarely the first response to someone standing over you who just knocked you down.


If you take the time to set up a strong kick, you give up a chance to control. Sometimes that's the right choice, sometimes it's not. If I can't control AND set up a strong kick, I'll skip the weak kick (the one that's immediately available), and take the punch.

The soccer ball won't tell the whole story. You're forgetting surface area of the strike. But you've dragged this far enough off topic now. More than one person has pointed out that low punches like in that kata can have application. Continue your assertion that every kick in that situation is better than every punch. You'll continue to be wrong, but my pointing that out won't help you, so I'll let you have at it.

the surface area of the strike has no bearing on how much kinetic energy is contained or released on contact( assuming full contact). THe issue with kick punch thing that the muscles in the leg and buttocks are,a) bigger and b much stronger, the leg is also heavier, particularly with a pair of big boots on

there are only a limited number of things,a person who has been knocked over can do, they are mostly, get up, curl up, they could do that sliding round the floor thing, were they keep their legs between me and them, just booting their legs repeatedly is good and if they say on the floor I'm happy enough

 

[skribs]

the surface area of the strike has no bearing on how much kinetic energy is contained or released on contact( assuming full contact). THe issue with kick punch thing that the muscles in the leg and buttocks are,a) bigger and b much stronger, the leg is also heavier, particularly with a pair of big boots on

there are only a limited number of things,a person who has been knocked over can do, they are mostly, get up, curl up, they could do that sliding round the floor thing, were they keep their legs between me and them, just booting their legs repeatedly is good and if they say on the floor I'm happy enough

You can scissor-kick the legs, you can kick for the groin. You can ankle pick and push on the knee to take someone down. I'm pretty sure there's an entire art where the practitioners are in their element in that position.

 

[jobo]

You can scissor-kick the legs, you can kick for the groin. You can ankle pick and push on the knee to take someone down. I'm pretty sure there's an entire art where the practitioners are in their element in that position.

only if a, they are in range and b stop kicking you long enough to catch hold of the leg, you need to be daft enough to put you line in side their line, but anyway them lying on the floor is a win for me, they can stay there all day, they cant hurt me, if they try to get up they get kicked

 

[Midnight-shadow]

You can scissor-kick the legs, you can kick for the groin. You can ankle pick and push on the knee to take someone down. I'm pretty sure there's an entire art where the practitioners are in their element in that position.

Yep. Dog Style Kung Fu (Dishu Quan) specialises in takedowns and ground fighting using mainly the feet and legs to trap and control your opponent. That said, it's a pretty rare style and I doubt your average lout on the street would know more than just flailing their legs at you when they are down.

Dishu Quan is actually a really fascinating style to study, as it gives you a completely different take on ground fighting.

 

[jobo]

Yep. Dog Style Kung Fu (Dishu Quan) specialises in takedowns and ground fighting using mainly the feet and legs to trap and control your opponent. That said, it's a pretty rare style and I doubt your average lout on the street would know more than just flailing their legs at you when they are down.

Dishu Quan is actually a really fascinating style to study, as it gives you a completely different take on ground fighting.

that looks more like a buster Keaton thing than a serious demo,

 

[Midnight-shadow]

that looks more like a buster Keaton thing than a serious demo,

You're right, it does. The style is anything but a joke though

 

[Balrog]

However, I'm curious about other arts, or even Taekwondo schools that have different forms. Do your forms teach isolated concepts, such as one form focused on footwork, another focused on defense, another focused on hand strikes, another on throws? Does each form have its own theme, such as defense against certain types of attacks, or techniques of a particular variety? Or do your forms build on each other and reinforce previous concepts while adding new ones?

In Songahm Taekwondo, every rank has specific basics. You learn the basics and you practice them with the one-steps and the form. The next rank adds in new basics and raises the complexity of the one-steps and the forms. Etc. Each form has a mixture of blocks, strikes and kicks, with no particular emphasis on a specific aspect.

 

[skribs]

only if a, they are in range and b stop kicking you long enough to catch hold of the leg, you need to be daft enough to put you line in side their line, but anyway them lying on the floor is a win for me, they can stay there all day, they cant hurt me, if they try to get up they get kicked

If you're in range to kick, you're in range to get swept. If you're kicking, the other leg is usually standing still.

 

[jobo]

If you're in range to kick, you're in range to get swept. If you're kicking, the other leg is usually standing still.

no in pretty sure i can kick someone on the leg whilst my standing leg is at least two foot out of range( you do remember they are lying down, don't you), but i have got long legs, i could also jump whilst kicking let's see them sweep that from under me

 

[skribs]

no in pretty sure i can kick someone on the leg whilst my standing leg is at least two foot out of range( you do remember they are lying down, don't you), but i have got long legs, i could also jump whilst kicking let's see them sweep that from under me

The angle is a lot different when you're kicking at a target that's a few feet above or below your hips than something on the same level as your hips. I have to get a lot closer for headshots than for body shots.

 

[jobo]

The angle is a lot different when you're kicking at a target that's a few feet above or below your hips than something on the same level as your hips. I have to get a lot closer for headshots than for body shots.

i you mean about the height of a football, i can kick that with my standing leg two foot away?

 

[skribs]

i you mean about the height of a football, i can kick that with my standing leg two foot away?

I mean if you are kicking a low target with your leg at a 45 degree angle down, you only have about half the reach as you do if you are on the ground doing a scissor kick straight to the side.

The other aspect is if you are at the extreme end of your reach you will be basically poking the target. You don't have nearly the same reach when you're going for power. Whereas with a scissor take-down, it's more about the leverage and the joints than the strength of the kick.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Two feet away from your target. Are you kicking their feet?

 

[jobo]

Two feet away from your target. Are you kicking their feet?

I'm kicking what ever is two foot away from me

 

[jobo]

I mean if you are kicking a low target with your leg at a 45 degree angle down, you only have about half the reach as you do if you are on the ground doing a scissor kick straight to the side.

The other aspect is if you are at the extreme end of your reach you will be basically poking the target. You don't have nearly the same reach when you're going for power. Whereas with a scissor take-down, it's more about the leverage and the joints than the strength of the kick.

my legs,are three foot long,I've just taken a Football and my dog in the park, marked two foot, and toe ended the ball the length of the Football field, the dog brings it back , I'm not sure what you are having difficulty with, you spin on the,standing foot,(all i need is he ability to have my feet two foot apart, which even i can manage), which remain steadfast at two foot away, you can work it out if you do a bit of Pythagoras