How did Taekwon-Do (1955) predating 1966 look like?

[chrispillertkd]

Let's for argument sake pretend you have to employ a roundhouse kick. Doesn't really matter if it's against the head.

Do you you think pulling of those old school turning kicks is possible against a moving target? We almost never see it in kickboxing for a reason! These kicks lack applicability.

I can tell you from personal experience that turning kicks executed "traditionally" are applicable and can generate an immense amount of power. Especially against a moving target.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Laplace_demon]

1:06

Here you can hear General Choi openly bash WTF(KKW), saying that he does not concider it to be TKD, that they only borrowed the name, and that it's a poor mimic of Karate (Karate he says is much better).

Later in the 90s, when WTF were to be accepted into the olympics, Choi was very happy to hear this, because in the end it's all TKD. A complete contradiction of what he said before.

This demonstrates how Choi only cared about (self deluded) publicity, without any principles. Choi contradicted himself within a few years, when WTF was up for the olympics.

The ironic thing is that ITF is arguably closer to Karate, than KKW/WTF.

 

[elder999]

Interesting. I have only ever heard that Yoon, Byung-In already knew Chu'an-Fa when he met Toyama and had, in fact, used it in order to defend a fellow Korean who was being harassed by a group of Japanese students. I'd be very interested in any information you have on Toyama teaching Yoon Chu'an-Fa.

Pax,

Chris

I have no information, merely speculation.....the two exchanged info for years, but Toyama had already studied Chuan Fa......it's far more likely that Yoon got more info from Toyama sensei, then vice versa.....

 

[RTKDCMB]

Do you you think pulling of those old school turning kicks is possible against a moving target?

One of our instructors used two of them in a self defense situation, one to each attacker, it was not only possible it was effective.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Here is a KKW instructional with a radically different Dollyo Chagi (roundhouse kick), and this is the more practical one. Which of the two is the one most commonly taught in KKW schools, as the primary roundhouse kick?

At :1:35 - Roundhouse kick

At 2:13 you can clearly see that it is the same kick as the video I had shown.

 

[RTKDCMB]

The KKW dollyo chagi you linked to is not the one being discussed. And that was a demonstration video, taking it step by step. I have seen roundhouse toutorials which recommend a seperate roundhouse kick:

This: Is the WTF/KKW kick I am referring to:

Is this the one Rayners academy discussed?

That kick has a whole new set of problems, not the least of which is turning your back on the opponent after the kick has been thrown. If you are using the spin to add power (as in a spinning heel kick) that is different but spinning after the fact is like closing the gate after the horse has run away.

 

[Tez3]

Let's for argument sake pretend you have to employ a roundhouse kick. Doesn't really matter if it's against the head.

Do you you think pulling of those old school turning kicks is possible against a moving target? We almost never see it in kickboxing for a reason! These kicks lack applicability.

I think you need to (a) watch more kick boxing (b) actually listen to what widely experienced, mature TKDists are telling you and (c) learn that when you are in a hole stop digging.

 

[RTKDCMB]

1:06

Here you can hear General Choi openly bash WTF(KKW), saying that he does not concider it to be TKD, that they only borrowed the name, and that it's a poor mimic of Karate (Karate he says is much better).

Later in the 90s, when WTF were to be accepted into the olympics, Choi was very happy to hear this, because in the end it's all TKD. A complete contradiction of what he said before.

This demonstrates how Choi only cared about (self deluded) publicity, without any principles. Choi contradicted himself within a few years, when WTF was up for the olympics.

So he is not allowed to change his opinion?

The ironic thing is that ITF is arguably closer to Karate, than KKW/WTF.

Rhee Tae Kwon Do is closer to Karate than both of them yet it is still TKD. I am not sure what point you are trying to make here..

 

[Gnarlie]

That kick has a whole new set of problems, not the least of which is turning your back on the opponent after the kick has been thrown. If you are using the spin to add power (as in a spinning heel kick) that is different but spinning after the fact is like closing the gate after the horse has run away.

The fact that Tuttle Press make tutorial DVDs and the use of two pads leads me to believe that this is a drill to develop power through the target in a normal turning kick, rather than a type of kick in itself.

A similar kick does exist where the foot is pulled through and down after contact, but that is a kick to the neck intended to take the opponents head down with it by pushing down against the brachial nerve, so back turning is less of an issue because the opponent is unbalanced. I find it an impractical kick though, and haven't seen it taught for a very long time now. They used to call it tiger kick I think.

 

[Gnarlie]

Rhee Tae Kwon Do is closer to Karate than both of them yet it is still TKD. I am not sure what point you are trying to make here..

Me either

 

[Laplace_demon]

So he is not allowed to change his opinion?



Rhee Tae Kwon Do is closer to Karate than both of them yet it is still TKD. I am not sure what point you are trying to make here..

He ridiculed WTF, only to say the complete opposite when it was turned into an olympic sport. If you seriously believe that he sincerely changed his opinion, then I have no words...

 

[Laplace_demon]

Rhee Tae Kwon Do is closer to Karate than both of them yet it is still TKD. I am not sure what point you are trying to make here..

Rhee Tae Kwon Do is an ITF of shoot.

 

[RTKDCMB]

then I have no words

That would be a welcome change.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Rhee Tae Kwon Do is an ITF of shoot.

No kidding?
It was separated from the ITF a very long time ago (a bit before my time). It is distinctly different.

 

[Laplace_demon]

That would be a welcome change.

Do you think his statements were respectful? Would he have been banned on MartialTalk? Are you all as confident that TKD is inclusive? This is the man ITFers look up to, and you guys think we are all one happy family. Right...

 

[Tez3]

"Do you think his statements were respectful? Would he have been banned on MartialTalk? Are you all as confident that TKD is inclusive? This is the man ITFers look up to, and you guys think we are all a happy family. Right..."

 

[RTKDCMB]

Do you think his statements were respectful?

I think his statements were his opinion, which he was entitled to.

Would he have been banned on MartialTalk?

No more than anyone else on here who has an opinion on another martial art

Are you all as confident that TKD is inclusive?

Inclusive of what? Who?

This is the man ITFers look up to,

Why shouldn't ITFers look up to the one who founded their art. I look up to the founder of my art even if I didn't agree with every single thing he says and does..

and you guys think we are all one happy family. Right...

I have no idea which ITFers think that, especially since I am not an ITFer and have never been one.

 

[TrueJim]

Later in the 90s, when WTF were to be accepted into the olympics, Choi was very happy to hear this, because in the end it's all TKD. A complete contradiction of what he said before.

This demonstrates how Choi only cared about (self deluded) publicity, without any principles. Choi contradicted himself within a few years, when WTF was up for the olympics.

I think it's easy to forget nowadays that up until 1988 South Korea was a dictatorship. It wasn't until 1988 that South Korea became the modern democracy that we all know and love today, home of K-Pop, K-Tigers and Gangnam Style.

Personally, I think Choi was stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of trying to promote taekwondo: he had communism in the north, and a dictatorship in the south...and in that mess he had to find funding and political support for his life's passion: promoting a style of martial art that would definitely NOT be confused with Japanese martial arts.

So here's another way one could look at it...

If Choi had been motivated only by his own self-interest, he would have taken a much different path in life: he was already a general, and an ambassador...he could have played it safe, compromised more often, stayed on the good side of his government, and his career could have gone on indefinitely.

Instead, he kept poking his fingers in everybody's eyes because dammit he wanted his style of taekwondo to be globally loved! Even if it meant he had to be kicked out of his cushy government positions, split away from all his colleagues and friends, and even leave his homeland entirely.

To me, that sounds like a man obsessed with a mission, not a man obsessed with himself. A man obsessed with himself would have taken the easy route. But that's just my opinion.

In any case, one could attribute Choi's change-of-heart about Kukkiwon/WTF-style taekwondo to it success on the world stage...or just as legitimately you could attribute it to the fact that the dictatorship he had hated to much had finally fallen and was no longer its primary advocate. I'm inclined to think it may have been more the latter than the former.

But what do I know, I'm no expert.

 

[TrueJim]

No kidding?
It was separated from the ITF a very long time ago (a bit before my time). It is distinctly different.

Are we talking about Rhee Taekwondo, or Jhoon Rhee Taekwondo?

Jhoon Rhee Taekwondo - Taekwondo Wiki

Rhee Taekwon-Do - Taekwondo Wiki

It's easy to confuse the two.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Are we talking about Rhee Taekwondo, or Jhoon Rhee Taekwondo?

Jhoon Rhee Taekwondo - Taekwondo Wiki

Rhee Taekwon-Do - Taekwondo Wiki

It's easy to confuse the two.

This one:

Rhee Taekwon-Do - Taekwondo Wiki