Horrible Kenpo Clps

[Atlanta-Kenpo]

OK, I know that I am going to get a lot of crap for this one but I want to get the opinions of you all on this.

I am so freaking tried of all the bleeping crapy a^* videos/clips/youtube stuff out there showing a EPAK black belts doing techniques on someone who just stands there and lets he/she hit him 2,134 times. I am not just talking about 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree black belts either. We can all beat the living crap out of anyone who just stands there and lets you whale away on them and yes I do agree that that is stage in the learning process. But if your a super duper black belt who can leap tall buildingsin a single bound then why not show the world. Is everyone hiding all of the secret information?


Is, it me? Maybe I am just not looking at the right people or maybe I have lost my way. Someone please show me the light here. If you have a clip of someone please send it to me.

 

[MJS]

OK, I know that I am going to get a lot of crap for this one but I want to get the opinions of you all on this.

I am so freaking tried of all the bleeping crapy a^* videos/clips/youtube stuff out there showing a EPAK black belts doing techniques on someone who just stands there and lets he/she hit him 2,134 times. I am not just talking about 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree black belts either. We can all beat the living crap out of anyone who just stands there and lets you whale away on them and yes I do agree that that is stage in the learning process. But if your a super duper black belt who can leap tall buildingsin a single bound then why not show the world. Is everyone hiding all of the secret information?


Is, it me? Maybe I am just not looking at the right people or maybe I have lost my way. Someone please show me the light here. If you have a clip of someone please send it to me.

I started a similar thread on this subject a while back. IMHO, the problem with many youtube clips, is that a) they show a small portion of the art. People watch that small snip and assume that what they see is what the art is really all about. B) many clips that we see are usually of the demo nature. A small segment from a seminar for example. So of course, if someone is demonstrating a technique, for the sake of learning, its going to be done slow. However, we never see anything at a quick pace. Sure, we see clips of people executing the tech. fast, but as you said, the uke is standing there.

Now, can/do these folks train with some resistance? I don't know, but we can only hope. When I'm working with my teacher, sure, we start off slow, but after a while, we pick up the pace. We try to make it more alive so to speak, with some movement and resistance.

 

[Carol]

*shrug*

Kenpo for defense against a mannequin. Its rather popular. I can understand that when a student is learning a technique, it makes sense to drill on a stationary person to get the mechanics down.

But the training wheels have to come off at some point after a certain amount of months, or years, or decades....

 

[SL4Drew]

Yeah there is lots of crap...sadly. At least you don't see AK guys "chi fighting" --at least not yet.

Here is some good stuff:

 

[KENPOJOE]

OK, I know that I am going to get a lot of crap for this one but I want to get the opinions of you all on this.

I am so freaking tried of all the bleeping crapy a^* videos/clips/youtube stuff out there showing a EPAK black belts doing techniques on someone who just stands there and lets he/she hit him 2,134 times. I am not just talking about 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree black belts either. We can all beat the living crap out of anyone who just stands there and lets you whale away on them and yes I do agree that that is stage in the learning process. But if your a super duper black belt who can leap tall buildingsin a single bound then why not show the world. Is everyone hiding all of the secret information?


Is, it me? Maybe I am just not looking at the right people or maybe I have lost my way. Someone please show me the light here. If you have a clip of someone please send it to me.

Hi folks!
I'm more interested in teaching all martial artists and especially kenpoists about various aspects regarding kenpo and not impressing people with how fast I can smack someone around. Hence, the reason for the particular format that I use in my clips.
Okey dokey! So, let's get your opinion on my kenpo clips! simply go to youtube and punch in "kenpojoe" and tell me your opinion!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[Touch Of Death]

Hi folks!
I'm more interested in teaching all martial artists and especially kenpoists about various aspects regarding kenpo and not impressing people with how fast I can smack someone around. Hence, the reason for the particular format that I use in my clips.
Okey dokey! So, let's get your opinion on my kenpo clips! simply go to youtube and punch in "kenpojoe" and tell me your opinion!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

Get closer.

 

[Atlanta-Kenpo]

SL4Drew,

I liked the clips that you posted and they are of high quality. However, it is still the same issue. We are still pulling of techniques with someone just standing there and not resisting?

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

SL4Drew,

I liked the clips that you posted and they are of high quality. However, it is still the same issue. We are still pulling of techniques with someone just standing there and not resisting?

Well to actually teach a set move you need a set situation. So for instructional clips, I expect the "dummy" to sit there. If they counter and then the person recounters and so forth it becomes a sparring macth which is less than instructional. I'm guessing you're looking for clips that are analagous to BJJ or grappling sparring clips but Kenpo oriented?

P.S. Thanks for the compliment.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Yeah there is lots of crap...sadly. At least you don't see AK guys "chi fighting" --at least not yet.

Here is some good stuff:

Thanks for the compliment.

 

[SL4Drew]

SL4Drew,

I liked the clips that you posted and they are of high quality. However, it is still the same issue. We are still pulling of techniques with someone just standing there and not resisting?

I'm not quite sure I understand. It seems to me there are three general places during the course of a self defense scenario where you could ask this question: 1) The defender's physical response to and recovery from the assault, 2) the attacker's physical response to the defender's counter attack, or 3) the efficacy of the counter attack.

I think that the first two categories can be generally understood and evaluated on video, but less so regarding the third. What I typically see in the videos, is the attacker walks up, and 'puts his hand' on the defender. Lapel grabs have little to no momentum behind them and almost never grab any chest hair with the lapel. Same with pushes. The attacker usually sticks his arms out and the defender moves--no push is ever applied. So, you can (and should) ask whether the defender realistically responded to the initial assault, i.e. did the defender actually defend against an aggressive lapel grab or just a mildly annoying grab of the lapel.

Second (and where I think most these vids jump the rails) is how the attacker responds to the counter attack. Most often you see the attacker just stands there as a Kenpo mannequin while 1,001 strikes are thrown. If you bash a guy in the nose, he'll usually react a certain way. Same thing with a groin shot, a chop to the neck, eye poke, or whatever mayhem the defender chooses to unleash. But usually in the vid the guy just stands there, apparently awed by the blinding attack. This means that you never consider where he'll be when you actually hit him, so how you going to hit him with the next shot on the street? He isn't going to stand there mouth agape while you furiously strike the air.

As far as if a particular move would successfully elicit the observed response that strikes me as more of an issue of instruction and experimentation. If I post a vid where I hit the attacker's upper arm, his knees buckle and he assumes a squatting position, then I kick him and you see him stumble back and grab his groin and expose his chin, then I execute a chop to the neck and the attacker falls to the ground, how do you really know the attacker will react that way? Or how do I know that lock I’m seeing really works? Or would that take down really succeed on the street? I don't really see how you could be sure of any that without actually getting hands on with a good teacher--"to feel is to believe."

So I think two of the videos (Dr. Dave was solo in his) demonstrate what I thought you were asking for, counter attacks that elicit real responses from the attacker, rather than viewing the attacker turned Kenpo mannequin. Were you referencing this or something else?

 

[SL4Drew]

Thanks for the compliment.

Got to give props to the good stuff. Keep 'em coming.

 

[SL4Drew]

Well to actually teach a set move you need a set situation. So for instructional clips, I expect the "dummy" to sit there. If they counter and then the person recounters and so forth it becomes a sparring macth which is less than instructional. I'm guessing you're looking for clips that are analagous to BJJ or grappling sparring clips but Kenpo oriented?

P.S. Thanks for the compliment.

I'd add to what James said. If you are looking for more of a 'sparring' or 'competitive fighting' demo, then you need to look else than within the universe of Kenpo self-defense techniques. They aren't built to explore that sort of situation or information.

 

[Atlanta-Kenpo]

YOU GUESSED IT! . I am looking to see a bit of countering and re countering. Personaly, the folks who can counter and then re counter are really the one that we would all consider quality martial artist.

Don't get me wrong. I understand that instruction clips are just that. INSTRUCTIONAL.

Everybody should be kenpo fighting and we will be fast as lighting,
hahahaha

 

[KENPOJOE]

Get closer.

Hi folks!,
This response reminds me of a story I tell my students...
"little johnny goes into an ice cream parlor to buy a cone. The man behind the counter says to the child "Welcome to ____'s ice cream parlor, what would you like today?" Johnny's face lights up as he thrusts his hand with a dollar bill in it and says "Ice Cream!". The clerk responds "well young man,We have 29 flavors of ice cream,which flavor would you like?" Little 5 year old johnny thinks for a moment and yells "ICE CREAM!".
The moral of the story,be specific if you want to get what you want...
So, "touch",be a lot more specific as far as in reference to which clip so we can have an intelligent articulate discussion!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[KENPOJOE]

YOU GUESSED IT! . I am looking to see a bit of countering and re countering. Personaly, the folks who can counter and then re counter are really the one that we would all consider quality martial artist.

Don't get me wrong. I understand that instruction clips are just that. INSTRUCTIONAL.

Everybody should be kenpo fighting and we will be fast as lighting,
hahahaha

Hi folks!
If that is your main point, then you should enjoy the video i did on the fai gin soo hand drills from David German where my student spontaneously blocked one of my actions,to which i showed the logical progression to the drill,surprising him!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[kidswarrior]

*shrug*

Kenpo for defense against a mannequin. Its rather popular. I can understand that when a student is learning a technique, it makes sense to drill on a stationary person to get the mechanics down.

But the training wheels have to come off at some point after a certain amount of months, or years, or decades....

Exactly. I believe the OP was about BBs not lower ranks. Now when teaching lower ranks, we've gotta demonstrate and assigning practice that they'll understand where they are. But as the MAist grows, must be able to work against more resistance, surprises (as Kempo Joe's response to the student who mixed it up on him), etc., imho.

 

[Atlanta-Kenpo]

OK, Kenpo Joe, The fact that a student changed something up on you and you were able to respond is not that impressive. Sorry. I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful but any black belt should be able to do that much less someone who is as high ranking as you are sir. Show me you pulling off a technique on someone who is countering you and evading you. Someone who is defending and attacking at the same time. Not just someone who happens to do something different at 1/2 speed and you reacting to it.

Show me action, reaction, countering and recountering.

 

[Jdokan]

Hi folks!
Okey dokey! So, let's get your opinion on my kenpo clips! simply go to youtube and punch in "kenpojoe" and tell me your opinion!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

Hi Joe..I actually enjoy your clips...If fact I recently incorporated a piece of one of your techniques into one of mine that I was re-vamping...The piece I "stole" from you (thank you by the way)though I don't remember the name is when you had the opponents right hand trapped to your patch and you pulled his elbow toward your right hip...Added to my technique nicely adding a totally different ending to one of my older techniques...
See you at the seminar in March...
Jeff,

 

[KENPOJOE]

OK, Kenpo Joe, The fact that a student changed something up on you and you were able to respond is not that impressive. Sorry. I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful but any black belt should be able to do that much less someone who is as high ranking as you are sir. Show me you pulling off a technique on someone who is countering you and evading you. Someone who is defending and attacking at the same time. Not just someone who happens to do something different at 1/2 speed and you reacting to it.

Show me action, reaction, countering and recountering.

Hi folks!
Dear Kevin,
The mention of that particular clip was not designed to "impress" you, rather to show it as a base introduction to the "what if" factor inherent in kenpo and to point it out as a viable example of actions that are responses to the "unpredictable" responses of an opponent and how to make them "predictable" due to proper body positioning. I don't consider your particular comment rude nor disrespectful. I would highly recomend some of francisco vigioux's material on reactionary sequencial flow on the mutual part of each practitioner. I have some footage of him demonstrating this and I know there must be some of that out on the net as well. So, now, my question to you is, When does what you want in regards to "seeing out there" cross over from becoming nothing more than sparring?
I look forward to your response,
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[MJS]

Hi folks!
Dear Kevin,
The mention of that particular clip was not designed to "impress" you, rather to show it as a base introduction to the "what if" factor inherent in kenpo and to point it out as a viable example of actions that are responses to the "unpredictable" responses of an opponent and how to make them "predictable" due to proper body positioning. I don't consider your particular comment rude nor disrespectful. I would highly recomend some of francisco vigioux's material on reactionary sequencial flow on the mutual part of each practitioner. I have some footage of him demonstrating this and I know there must be some of that out on the net as well. So, now, my question to you is, When does what you want in regards to "seeing out there" cross over from becoming nothing more than sparring?
I look forward to your response,
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

Hey Joe!

IMO, I think that Joe hit the nail on the head here. There is a distinct difference between sparring and applying your techniques. Now, this again, is only my opinion, but I think its rare that you'll see a full technique executed in a sparring setting. Part of, an idea, a concept..sure, but a full technique...not likely.