History of Kenpo - Al Tracy
- Thread starter BFoley
- Start date
I'm curious also.
Does this mean that Ed Parker started kenpo and Al Tracy left then started the Tracy system? How did all of this happen?
I really, really would like to know how Kenpo started and where all the other kenpo systems broke off (and why)...
:soapbox:
I realize this may be treading political waters... but history has a way of being educational.
:idunno:
- Ceicei
You need to ask someone who knows. I KNOW definitively that they got their Brown Belts. I KNOW that they moved up to the San Francisco area & opened a school ... and that is all I know.
Remember the timeframe, early 60's. Brown was not far from Black back then, and there were lots of promotions for the purpose of teaching, while you worked on the material you needed to actually make up the deficit. I am not saying or implying that this applied to the Tracy's at all, but I do know people who were around and did open schools for the IKKA, or TRACO during that period of time.
I think, but don't know, that they left and were still training with Mr. Parker for a while. Ricardo, do you know? I know DC "knows", but this is a highly charged issue, and all you can do is ask some of the Seniors and New Seniors who were around. Probably by phone would be the best way. Not in this forum. I think people are leary of leaving themselves open to the attacks that talking about this stuff can lead to ... up to and including legal action. So a phone call may go a lot further than posting something on the net.
-MB
Remember the timeframe, early 60's. Brown was not far from Black back then, and there were lots of promotions for the purpose of teaching, while you worked on the material you needed to actually make up the deficit. I am not saying or implying that this applied to the Tracy's at all, but I do know people who were around and did open schools for the IKKA, or TRACO during that period of time.
I think, but don't know, that they left and were still training with Mr. Parker for a while. Ricardo, do you know? I know DC "knows", but this is a highly charged issue, and all you can do is ask some of the Seniors and New Seniors who were around. Probably by phone would be the best way. Not in this forum. I think people are leary of leaving themselves open to the attacks that talking about this stuff can lead to ... up to and including legal action. So a phone call may go a lot further than posting something on the net.
-MB
C
CoolKempoDude
Guest
Originally posted by Ceicei
I'm curious also.
Does this mean that Ed Parker started kenpo and Al Tracy left then started the Tracy system? How did all of this happen?
I really, really would like to know how Kenpo started and where all the other kenpo systems broke off (and why)...
:soapbox:
I realize this may be treading political waters... but history has a way of being educational.
:idunno:
- Ceicei
i have to agree wholeheartly.
by knowing what really happened in American Kenpo and why AK guys p*ssed off when Tracy's articles were published, we will have better understand the history of Kenpo
If somebody knows about this, please share it here or email me so that we can satisfy our curiosity
My email and PM OPENS for your answers. Please let me know. I promise i won't tell other.
DEMAND for the truth.
R
RCastillo
Guest
To be honest with you, I know very little. Have heard all sorts of stories, and even after speaking with Master Al privately twice, I've never asked him for any info on the subject.:asian:
Randy Strausbaugh
Master Black Belt
According to his website, Al Tracy is planning a series of history-oriented seminars in the spring and summer of 2004. The site says that the seminars will focus on the history of the katas (who invented them, when and why they were taught, etc.) but I guess he will take questions at that time. Sounds like an opportunity to clear up a lot.
KenpoDave
2nd Black Belt
W
WhiteTiger
Guest
There is no doubt that history is often distorted to serve those writing it. Don't just take for granted what you are told, or what you read, not even by senior black belts who claim "I was there", unless they can back it up with evidence. There is sufficient documentation available to develop a good sence of what was going on with Kenpo in the early 60's and even back into the 1930's. There are old books, magazine articles, advertizing panthlets, signed and dated Black belt certificates, court transcripts, birth certificates, death certificates, ship manifests, ect. Most of these are in the hands of only 1 or 2 of the Senior Masters, and when asked they will share the information privately. I have personally seen some of these documents, and unless you presume to call these men forgers and perjurers you will have to accept the evidence they posess. Granted these documents do not tell the whole story, but enough is there to develop the general picture.
KenpoDave
2nd Black Belt
It interests me that people still post things about the Tracy's receiving their brown belts from Ed Parker. I believe the exact quote on this thread is "I KNOW definitively that they received their brown belts..."
Look, Ed Parker published a family tree. On it, he lists Al and Jim Tracy as black belts, and under their names, lists 106 other black belts.
On that evidence alone, one should KNOW that Al and Jim Tracy were of high enough rank to have promoted black belts that were recognized by their own instructor.
Al Tracy's shodan and sandan certificates, signed by Ed Parker, are available for viewing on the internet. It seems that some 42 years after his promotion, and 22 years after Parker published his family tree, and 2 Gatherings of Eagles, people would not still question that. Seems petty.
Look, Ed Parker published a family tree. On it, he lists Al and Jim Tracy as black belts, and under their names, lists 106 other black belts.
On that evidence alone, one should KNOW that Al and Jim Tracy were of high enough rank to have promoted black belts that were recognized by their own instructor.
Al Tracy's shodan and sandan certificates, signed by Ed Parker, are available for viewing on the internet. It seems that some 42 years after his promotion, and 22 years after Parker published his family tree, and 2 Gatherings of Eagles, people would not still question that. Seems petty.
KENPOJOE
Brown Belt
Hi folks!
I was looking at the thread and decided to add my "2 cents" for what it is worth to the mix...
First of all, I read Will Tracy's series of articles and wrote several responses on the AOL "Kenpo message board" [remember that place,DEVHOP?] and Yahoo's "Kenpo karate" message board [created by PC Wood] way back when they first showed up on Mr. Tracy's website. There were indeed several inaccuracies in the articles and the subiquent video. It was a case of "Kenpo revisionist history 101" in several instances [namely the "90 % of jujitsu was taken out of American Kenpo" among other statements] However, there were also many wonderful historical aspects of the American Kenpo system that the Tracy brothers were privy to because they were there!
To the best of my knowledge, originally there were to be 3 history tapes...I own one and i was informed that a second tape [in which Al Tracy receives his 10 dan from Tino Tuiosega] was also available. I know of one individual who only received the first tape and never received anything else [even though he paid for the entire package] I am an "AKer" as some of you refer to, however, I also have had a good relationship with Mr. and Mrs. Tracy, attending one of his history seminars as well as both of the gathering of eagles and working on video taping interviews for the tracys with numerous attendees for the tracys because of my historical knowledge of these individuals careers [for which I am infinitely grateful].
I believe the articles were yanked because individuals like myself simply wrote Mr. Tracy and his brothers and provided them with historical information that effectively refuted their points in the articles and their own study of various historical facts brought to light [such as Mitose's past career and non martial arts endevors] which caused them to withdraw the articles.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
I was looking at the thread and decided to add my "2 cents" for what it is worth to the mix...
First of all, I read Will Tracy's series of articles and wrote several responses on the AOL "Kenpo message board" [remember that place,DEVHOP?] and Yahoo's "Kenpo karate" message board [created by PC Wood] way back when they first showed up on Mr. Tracy's website. There were indeed several inaccuracies in the articles and the subiquent video. It was a case of "Kenpo revisionist history 101" in several instances [namely the "90 % of jujitsu was taken out of American Kenpo" among other statements] However, there were also many wonderful historical aspects of the American Kenpo system that the Tracy brothers were privy to because they were there!
To the best of my knowledge, originally there were to be 3 history tapes...I own one and i was informed that a second tape [in which Al Tracy receives his 10 dan from Tino Tuiosega] was also available. I know of one individual who only received the first tape and never received anything else [even though he paid for the entire package] I am an "AKer" as some of you refer to, however, I also have had a good relationship with Mr. and Mrs. Tracy, attending one of his history seminars as well as both of the gathering of eagles and working on video taping interviews for the tracys with numerous attendees for the tracys because of my historical knowledge of these individuals careers [for which I am infinitely grateful].
I believe the articles were yanked because individuals like myself simply wrote Mr. Tracy and his brothers and provided them with historical information that effectively refuted their points in the articles and their own study of various historical facts brought to light [such as Mitose's past career and non martial arts endevors] which caused them to withdraw the articles.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
