Helping Children With Weak Spirit

[StudentCarl]

Gents, I think too many people think martial arts is a cure or treatment for parents who cannot or will not cope with their childrens problems. Martial arts instructors aren't therapists, they aren't specialists in child psychology so why are they taking on children who have special needs?

the OP starts by labelling the child as having weak spirit, another label when it's perhaps as simple as the child doesn't want to be there, he may enjoy some parts but as a whole doesn't want to be there just because members of his family enjoy it doesn't mean to say he does. You are get stuck in this thing about how forcing them to do martial arts is good for the child, what bollocks. It's good for them if they want to do it not if they don't. It might be as simple too as the child needs a rest from martial arts and would benefit for picking it up later.


Don't bother getting sanctimonious with me and on your high horses, I say what I mean and if you don't like it don't read it. I am passionate about child welfare and labelling children as disabled because they have a small part of their brain not working or because their father lost a leg in Afghan and they have behavioural probelms coming to terms with that is cruel as is labelling a child as weak spirited because he doesn't come up to parent's or instructors expectations makes me very sad.
Helping children isn't making them do something they don't want to do, it's understanding the child, I gave some advice, it doesn't have to be taken but the remedy given by ATC was to force the child onto a military type regime to force it to take part. To bully the child into coming up to scratch basically and you think I'm twisted, wow. How many children's classes have you actually instructed btw? How many martial arts clubs/schools do you run?
I'm sure Bob even now is wading through your complaints about me - again :lol:

Say what you want, gents but I'm not going to add to a child's unhappiness just because the parents can't cope or have 'issues'. there's specialists for that.

Tez,
I respect that your heart is clearly centered on the growth of your students, but I think you sometimes get emotional and defensive, which distracts from the exchange of ideas. Related to teaching kids:

1. We all seem to agree that people should be treated as individuals. In answer to your above comment about special needs students, that's precisely why we DO accept and work with them. It doesn't mean we're trying to be psychologists, but I suspect we all believe that TKD has something to offer everyone. If not, let's discuss.

2. Labeling people is different from labeling symptoms, traits or behaviors. I believe it is essential to accurately label what we're seeing. Good praise is specific. Good teaching begins with accurately labeling what is to be changed. There's a big difference between saying that someone has a trait or behavior and believing that those things are permanent and unchangeable. The error is in believing that a person cannot change, an error I don't think is being made in this discussion. I do think we all have to make decisions about whether/when our expectations are realistic--I think that is really the heart of this discussion.

3. There is a line between making people do what they don't want to and leading them to exceed their perceived limitations. I suspect that all of us here have learned that the body is capable of much more than the mind often believes. Often, in my experience, the "what people don't want to do" is leave their comfort zone to work hard or take risks. The true art of teaching is leading a student to successfully stretch beyond their perceived limits. Some people are more ready for that than others, and the real master develops the ability to identify when is the time to challenge the student and when is the time to let them refine where they are now. The effective instructor balances challenge with success so that students have a postive experience. I have yet to meet someone who doesn't want that.

Carl

 

[StudentCarl]

Martial arts instructors aren't therapists, they aren't specialists in child psychology so why are they taking on children who have special needs?

Here's why:
1. We teach coordination and movement in a progressive way, something that is difficult for people with cognitive and/or physical disabilities. Difficult does not mean impossible, and all people improve with effort.
2. We teach self-control. It takes that just to make your body do what you want it to. I work with children who have great difficulty controlling their movements, are hyperactive, some with emotional/anger issues. Doing a form requires sustaining that control. Progressing through the ranks requires more and more. The self-control learned in class does affect behavior outside, regardless of age.
3. We teach people focus and also to follow directions. That requires attention, thought and effort, along with the self control above. These traits do improve with concentrated practice, something we offer.
4. We help improve memory skills--both for physical actions (forms, techniques) and information (curriculum, Korean terms, etiquette).
5. We provide "the village" that it takes to raise a child. The dojang "tribe" is a positive culture of mixed ages who offer acceptance and encouragement to everyone. No other activity near me has people from age 5 to 60+ doing the same activity together and supporting each other's growth. The little ones have contact with all ages, the big children copy the teens, the teens get time to teach and have positive interactions with the younger ones and time to be like and with adults, and the adults show the younger students that they are still working to learn as well. The special needs person is accepted as another brother or sister in the tribe, and all benefit.

We're not therapists or psychologists. We teach fundamental life skills essential to mastering yourself. People with special needs still have the same regular needs as the rest of us, and often need extra instruction in those areas too.

Carl

 

[dancingalone]

the OP starts by labelling the child as having weak spirit, another label when it's perhaps as simple as the child doesn't want to be there, he may enjoy some parts but as a whole doesn't want to be there just because members of his family enjoy it doesn't mean to say he does. You are get stuck in this thing about how forcing them to do martial arts is good for the child, what bollocks. It's good for them if they want to do it not if they don't. It might be as simple too as the child needs a rest from martial arts and would benefit for picking it up later.

I'm amused what this thread has evolved to. I am the instructor in this class and I observe the child in question each time. To repeat myself, he does enjoy training, only he has this mental/emotional issue which would be a good one to overcome. He certainly isn't being forced to train either by his mother or myself, so I have no idea where this idea comes from.

And weak spirit is an appropriate description of what is going on here. I am sorry if it isn't as kind or PC a term as some others I could use, but I have little patience for mincing words.

Time to sit back and take a few deep breaths?

 

[Tez3]

I say what I see, someone labels children as having 'weak spirit' ( which is what precisely?) and talks about substandard children in class I think that's appalling and will shout about it.

When did martial arts become a place where we take children the parents can't or won't sort out? We teach people to defend themselves and fight, there can be great benefits that come from that but that's not the function of martial arts, it's a pleasing by product. Children of any ability should be trained in martial arts if they want to, those that don't want to shouldn't be forced. A child with problems but who wants to train we can help but a child that doesn't? How is forcing them to do martial arts and making them do military type physical training going to help? Of course you can take a person beyond what they think they can do but is it fair to do that to a child who hates martial arts? Wouldn't it be better to find another activity they can do well at?

If child wants to be at martial arts and is having problems training any good instructor will make it a point to help, to find ways to enable that child to fulfil it's potential in martial arts. However if a child doesn't want to be there and is at risk of derailing the class or is unhappy in class the instrcutor should tell the parents that they are sorry but the child needs to leave that class and find something that suits it. I really don't believe upping the training, coming round to the house making the child train is the answer to a child who doesn't want to be in martial arts.

Thinking one knows best for children can be a big mistake, taking children and making them train because you think they are wimps and you will make them better people for it is a big mistake. By all means push the children that are keen, take them as far as they can go, further than they think they can but the children who don't want to be there why do it to them when they could be productively enjoying another activity instead?

How would you feel as martial artists if the government decided that it knew what was best for you and put you all in a cricket team, that cricket was the way to go, you can't do any other sport or any other activity. It will do you good, teach you to play in a team, make you fitter, teach you control and discipline. Yep you would hate it even if you enjoyed some parts of it, being there against your will would aggravate you so spare a thought for the child who doesn't want to be in the martial arts class, tell the parents, help them find the sport /activity the child wants, who knows you may have the next world champion at something other than martial arts.

My specific point I'm trying to make is that not all children want to do martial arts but I'm being told that they must do it if the parent wishes. As an instructor I don't believe I have to participate in this. It's not about taking willing children and making them better, pushing them, it's about pushing the ones who don't want to be there.

Simple question, as instructors do you think it's right to train and teach a child who hates martial arts and is seriously unhappy but is there because the parents think their child will learn something they don't seem to be able to teach ie discipline?

 

[dancingalone]

Can we get back on topic, please? If anyone has some thoughts on my first post, I'd love to read them.

 

[Tez3]

Can we get back on topic, please? If anyone has some thoughts on my first post, I'd love to read them.

I wasn't saying the child you teach didn't want to be there, though it's unfortunate that you think he has 'weak spirit', you were given advice that I thought amounted to cruelty ie making the child do a lot of extra military type training. All I suggested is you find out what the child himself wants and thinks about his situation, a long talk may do wonders to providing insight into why he doesn't perform as you'd wish. It may surprise you to know what is going on in his head.

 

[StudentCarl]

Can we get back on topic, please? If anyone has some thoughts on my first post, I'd love to read them.

To me, your student's desire is the key. That he wants to be there suggests that he wants to learn. Keep praising effort and perseverence with all students in the class. He will see what you are praising and, over time, he will increase his effort in an attempt to get more of your praise. I'm not saying to withhold your praise when he earns it, but keep it real so what you're praising is when he stretches outside his comfort zone. He'll get there. He's lucky to have you as an instructor, actively working to find what will work.

Carl

 

[Cirdan]

To answer the op..

Go trough the technique at slow speed, this also makes it harder to use the injury excuse.

One on one instruction for a bit. If the child is in awe of the instructor and embarrased he/she can`t do the tech it might be a good idea to use an assistant. Give positive feeback to all progress when the student tries.

Make a game of some sort where this technique is part, then return to normal practice. Demonstrating it is an effective move might also motivate. Within the limits of what you want to show kids of course.

 

[Tez3]

I had one boy aged 8 stop trying in class, he just went through the motions and didn't try very hard. What was at the bottom of that was one of the higher grades who was a couple of years older constantly whispering in his ear that he was no good, shouldn't have passed his grading, was useless etc. This went on at school as well and was picked up by a couple of other non martial arts kids.

Another boy started going down hill, was getting resentful at being told anything and did everything really slowly much to the other students annoyance. The background to that one was that several years before the boy's father had met and married his mother he'd had a relationship with someone else resulting in a son with whom he had no contact, now aged 19 the son had made contact and my student had felt betrayed and pushed out. He hadn't said anything to his parents so the situation was brooding and getting worse.

I've had children not train properly because they were shy and afraid of being laughed at expecially where siblings were training too. Sibling rivalry can be ferocious. training with a parent can be just sheer embarrassing for some children depending on age, imagine what some kids say if they see your mum do better than you or worse than everyone else! I've seen parents neglect what they are doing when training so they can nag their kids!

Often the children who train after school hours are simply too tired to take in and to put too much into training. Our local schools because we live in a country area finish half an hour earlier than city ones so to make up for it there is about an hour and a half homework to do every night which is hard on five and six year olds. Activities at school often make the children tired and woolly headed after school.

Some parents schedule too many activities for their children to be eager at everyone even if the kids enjoy them, I've had quite a few parents say their child is tired because of all the stuff they've had to do. Scouts, sports, after school clubs, cricket, netball, soccer etc

All of these can make a child feel less than up to the challenge of a martial arts class and aren't the child's fault.

Just some experiences that I've found make a child have a 'weak spirit' though I wouldn't call it that.

 

[jks9199]

Ladies & gents...

Let's stay on topic, and keep the heat low, OK? Teaching kids is a whole different thing compared to teaching adults, and we can certainly share some ideas!

 

[Tez3]

Dancingalone, when you say he uses injuries to get out of things is it any specific type of injury or pain he says he has? is it something like just a twisted or sore ankle or does he say he has pains in his knees, back or other joints? I only ask because growing pains are quite common in children and they tend to only do things they know won't hurt or they've worked out how to do without it hurting more. There's nothing to see or feel or even tell if it's growing pains but I've seen kids including my own in bits because of it.