Favoritism or just lack of help? Both?

[ShelleyK]

Shelley, this is self defence from two of the very best instructors in the world. I hope you can see what I mean?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vFvfJfCh64&feature=related

yes I see what you mean Tez
The self defense that we use in testing like what you see in my videos are just basic techniques. I have seen the black belts testing and their opponents come at them with weapons and they grapple them to the ground.

 

[Tez3]

yes I see what you mean Tez
The self defense that we use in testing like what you see in my videos are just basic techniques. I have seen the black belts testing and their opponents come at them with weapons and they grapple them to the ground.

I'm glad the black belts do it but imo I think really you should be doing it from the very first grading. It's such an imporant thing to be able to defend yourself that you shouln't be worrying about putting your feet in the right place more like where on the attackers body you are going to hurt him most. I don't think the basics should be taught as you were doing in the video, you weren't even touching each other! If you don't and also if you don't fight full contact yor muscle memory, if you are attacked, will make you exactly as you were taught, pull your punches and not touch your attacker. Even the very basics shouldn't be taught so you have to put your feet in exact spots, it should be literally hands on.

Sorry, it's a pet hate of mine that self defence isn't taught in a realistic way. I tend to rant about it.

 

[ShelleyK]

Three year contract!!

That alone is setting off numerous red alarms in my brain. When I recently was checking out various schools in my area, if they didn't offer month to month, I never gave 'em a second look. Does the school guarantee a black belt at the end of the three year contract? If so, that again is sending off red alarms, at least for me it does.

Keep up the hard work,

Robert

I dont think ANY of the schools here offer month to month I actually like being in a contract, it ensures that I come to class and get my money's worth LOL. At the end of my 3 year contract, if I do not have my black belt then they do a re-evaluation and see how far Ive come and if I am on target (which I am-minus the 6-8 months that I was out for some surgeries) then my monthly rate will stay the same as it was when I was locked in to the 3 years. If I am not then I can renew I THINK on a month to month basis until I get my BB

 

[ShelleyK]

I'm glad the black belts do it but imo I think really you should be doing it from the very first grading. It's such an imporant thing to be able to defend yourself that you shouln't be worrying about putting your feet in the right place more like where on the attackers body you are going to hurt him most. I don't think the basics should be taught as you were doing in the video, you weren't even touching each other! If you don't and also if you don't fight full contact yor muscle memory, if you are attacked, will make you exactly as you were taught, pull your punches and not touch your attacker. Even the very basics shouldn't be taught so you have to put your feet in exact spots, it should be literally hands on.

Sorry, it's a pet hate of mine that self defence isn't taught in a realistic way. I tend to rant about it.

Its ok, I dont like the way we do it either. When I am more proficient then I plan on taking some more hardcore self defense classes...I think the police departments offr them here and I may look into it.

 

[Tez3]

I dont think ANY of the schools here offer month to month I actually like being in a contract, it ensures that I come to class and get my money's worth LOL. At the end of my 3 year contract, if I do not have my black belt then they do a re-evaluation and see how far Ive come and if I am on target (which I am-minus the 6-8 months that I was out for some surgeries) then my monthly rate will stay the same as it was when I was locked in to the 3 years. If I am not then I can renew I THINK on a month to month basis until I get my BB

Perhaps though reading between the lines here you maybe feel you aren't getting your monies worth? I've never trained with any club that had such a timetable for grading for black, you grade usually when you are ready, no tests in between or extra bits for belts, and if it take years to get your balck so be it.
How many belts do you have to get through and how long between each grading?

 

[Tez3]

Its ok, I dont like the way we do it either. When I am more proficient then I plan on taking some more hardcore self defense classes...I think the police departments offr them here and I may look into it.

But that's what you are paying for when you learn a martial art and it says it teaches self defence! You shouldn't have to be looking elsewhere.
I'm more of RobBnTx's view that alarm bells are ringing here now.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I know what it feels like when the teacher has a favorite or spends most of his time with his girlfriend instead of giving you pointers.

I also know that sometimes in a large class setting it can be difficult to give everyone a fair share of correction time.

Has this always happen where he seems to space out or recently?

Maybe something else is going on in his life causing him to not give all his attention.

Maybe he finds your progressing to be fine or what ever reason he feels is valid.

Point is you do not feel it to be valid and you need to bring it up(polite,professionally,nicely) with him or another head teacher.

A student should not have to learn material from another source other than their teacher(supplementing is fine)

 

[ShelleyK]

Perhaps though reading between the lines here you maybe feel you aren't getting your monies worth? I've never trained with any club that had such a timetable for grading for black, you grade usually when you are ready, no tests in between or extra bits for belts, and if it take years to get your balck so be it.
How many belts do you have to get through and how long between each grading?

Well noooo not really, I DO feel like Im getting my money's worth as far as the curriculum goes and the amount of classes offered, its just lately I dont think Im getting enough instruction...it could be though that its because Im almost a senior belt? I dont know...

We grade when we are ready and wehn our teacher feels we are ready. The average time frame is 2-4 months for the junior belts...blue stripe and blue belt up average 3-4 months but can be 2 months as well, and I believe red stripe on up just depends on how much time you really need individually.
I tend to be a semi fast learner adn I have been averaging 2 months each for my belts, and I still have 6 more belts til my black belt. So thats just about a year and a half more of training....and I believe I can do it.

 

[RobBnTX]

I dont think ANY of the schools here offer month to month

Years ago when I was in an ITF dojang in Midland TX the rate was $35 per month, well yeah it was a few years back, early '90s. I did not even realize that some schools required contracts with long term commitment until I moved here to this area.

In the Dallas area where I now live, the Shorin-ryu school I was in last year was month to month but had a 3 month discount option.

I signed up for a 6 week trial period at the TKD dojang where I am currently training but I was told after the 6 week period, it would be month to month. I did also check out one of the oldest TKD schools in the area, associated with an independent organization that is neither ITF or Kukkiwon/WTF. I was shocked that they required a one year contract, I don't think you have to pay for the full year all at one time but you were obligated to pay it out even if you ultimately dropped out of class.

There were several other martial arts schools that I inquired about and if they required contracts, I was out the door faster than Chuck Norris can throw a spinning back kick! Another red flag for me was if the school had several associate instructors that were all "Master" level but they looked like they were barely old enough to be out of college!

I do hope things work out for you Shelley.

Robert

 

[arnisador]

Can you explain to me what you mean by I may need more time on the basics...

I'm just thinking of other situations I've seen where an instructor spends less time on one student and more on others. Favoritism is uncommon save for young instructors doting on their opposite-sex students or highly competitive instructors focusing on their competition-bound students, in my experience.

But, I've seen it done as punishment for a bad attitude, to teach the virtues of patience to someone who wants to move on through the ranks too quickly, to allow someone more time to fine-tune the basics (footwork, punching, etc.), to allow the person more time to build a needed physical attribute (endurance, strength, balance, ambidextrousness, etc.), to allow the person more time to build a needed mental attribute (perseverance, pain tolerance, willingness to strike hard, lessened fear of being hit, etc.), to send the message that the student should attend another school because the instructor is rejecting him or her, to show the instructor's confidence that the student is doing so well he or she needs less help, because the student seems indifferent about training or unmotivated, or because other students are truly in need of more help.

Mind you, I think some of these are bad reasons for showing less attention to a student, and better communication is usually a good approach. But when you have a student who wants to make black belt in just one year, this can be one way to send the "chill out and work on the material I've just shown you for a while" message. If you have confidence in your instrcutor, give him a ittle more time--like other teachers you've had, he may have a good plan in mind for you even if you don't understand it now.

Of course, he may also just be ignoring you for no good reasons--the squeakier wheels are getting the oil, perhaps. If that's so you should assert yourself and ask for more attention, and failing that, leave.

But I'd still counsel some patience here...is it possible that's what he wants you to learn right now? I dunno. I've had dinner with you but I haven't worked out with you so I can't comment on what your abilities are. I'm just thinkin' out loud.

 

[seasoned]

The fact is, everyone trains differently, and dojo's and Sensei teach differently. Your question is more toward favoritism, then it is curriculum as some in this thread are pointing to. Favoritism is a problem in many schools, and when it comes from the head master there is a big problem. Give it a little more time, like you said, maybe the end of July. At that time, and in a respectful way, confront him about it. If he is Worthy of the title master, he will evaluate and adjust, if not, see if you can break the contract, move on, and stay away from contracts in the future. IMHO :asian:

 

[jks9199]

Ah, I was reading it as you were being given tips as in how to perform techniques! I couldn't understand why you seemed to be limited on how many you got though it did go with you're being ignored!

I'd honestly read that part the same way, even though I got the part about "self defense tip" right... :shrug:

Shelley... If you feel that you aren't being coached and guided the way you are supposed to be, you have every right to bring it to the instructor's attention. You can do this respectfully. Don't accuse him of ignoring your or showing preferential treatment, but present it as you don't understand why you aren't being tested/corrected the way other students are.

You should never find yourself in the position of relying on video helps as a primary means of learning. You're not paying for your teachers to critique videos and give you handouts; you're paying for them to teach you the techniques which you can then REVIEW in the videos and manuals. That's a major issue, in my opinion.

Now, it's possible that you've reached a point in your training where you don't and won't get daily feedback... We all reach these at different times in our experience, where we kind of plateau and have to consolidate what we've learned or where we're picking things up so fast and so smoothly that there's little for our teachers to do. But, as a black belt with more than 20 years experience -- I'm expected to be able to tell when this is happening to me. For you, as a beginner (I don't know where blue belt fits in your rank progression -- but you've got more than a year left on your contract, so I know you're not in the high end of advancement yet), you need your teacher to let you know where things stand.

 

[yorkshirelad]

See thats the thing, I am not sure if I SHOULD speak to him about this. I do not want to seem petty and maybe my observations are way off based, I just dont know.
As far as leaving the school I am not sure I can do that. I have a 3 year contract with them to achieve BB status, and I am in my 2nd year now. The location of the school is perfect and most of the students are pretty great....

What if you don't get your BB within the three years of the contract? Did he guarantee you a BB within the three years when you signed the contract?

 

[Tez3]

Grading every two months or so is imo way too fast even every 3-4 months is, it makes it sound like a belt factory where all you are doing is learning the curriculum for passing the next belt. An average of about six months is usual for most places I think, gives you time to settle in the belt you are, to learn techniques well so that you can do them instinctively. The higher the grade the longer between each grading as basics are gone over and over again. Forms are gone through with the bunkai for each explained and tried, lots of contact sparring and self defence work as well as fitness.
I don't know if I can explain this vey well (perhaps someone else can?) but the training must be 'deep', everything should be starting to be ingrained in both your brain's memory and your muscle memory. Learning from books and videos is unacceptable when you have instructors to teach you.
If I read you right you have six more belts to do in a year? Most places even in TKD I believe I'm right in saying only have ten belts from white to black. Have you paid for each of these gradings?
Sorry I'm nagging aren't I? didn't mean to it's just worrying tbh there's little pointers all over the place that just don't sound right. I know how important it is to have a place to train that you like and enjoy but they should still be teaching properly.

 

[ShelleyK]

What if you don't get your BB within the three years of the contract? Did he guarantee you a BB within the three years when you signed the contract?

As I stated in a previous post...The contract is for getting a BB in 3 years...sometimes it happens sometimes it doesnt. Im locked into a set price and after the contract is up if I am doing well and nearing BB status then my monthly payments wont change, however if they deem that I still need quite a bit of work still then I can renew the contract but Im not guaranteed the price I was before in my 3 yr contract

 

[ShelleyK]

Grading every two months or so is imo way too fast even every 3-4 months is, it makes it sound like a belt factory where all you are doing is learning the curriculum for passing the next belt. An average of about six months is usual for most places I think, gives you time to settle in the belt you are, to learn techniques well so that you can do them instinctively. The higher the grade the longer between each grading as basics are gone over and over again. Forms are gone through with the bunkai for each explained and tried, lots of contact sparring and self defence work as well as fitness.
I don't know if I can explain this vey well (perhaps someone else can?) but the training must be 'deep', everything should be starting to be ingrained in both your brain's memory and your muscle memory. Learning from books and videos is unacceptable when you have instructors to teach you.
If I read you right you have six more belts to do in a year? Most places even in TKD I believe I'm right in saying only have ten belts from white to black. Have you paid for each of these gradings?
Sorry I'm nagging aren't I? didn't mean to it's just worrying tbh there's little pointers all over the place that just don't sound right. I know how important it is to have a place to train that you like and enjoy but they should still be teaching properly.

Belt testing at our school is held every last Thursday of the month. The 2-3 month time frame is a general time frame. You dont have to test if you dont feel ready. However if the instructor sees that you know the form, 1 step sparring and self defense then he can say go ahead and test for the next rank.

I have 6 more belts til BB and I have 1 1/2 years left in my contract.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Shelley's school is a commercial school with the usual commercial attributes, but has a good rep locally, and isn't considered a belt mill by the folks I've talked to.

 

[MBuzzy]

Shelley,

I'm in agreeance - Maybe give it another few weeks and see if things change. If not, address the problem with the instructor. You are paying for a service that you feel is not being rendered. In the end, this is still a business. If things don't change, you have every right to break your contract. From a Legal Standpoint, you can walk away right now. If he is not instructing you, then HE is in breach of contract and you have the right to separate yourself. I know that you don't want to do this, but he needs to know that substandard service results in a loss of $$. In today's economy, NO MA school can afford to lose students.

 

[seasoned]

Just to reiterate my post, and also show my agreement with MBuzzy. I feel this is the best avenue to take. Give it a little more time, if nothing happens, ask for a meeting. Once at the meeting, ask if there are areas that you could focus on. In doing this, and asking the right questions, away from the class setting, you can get some very good feed back, with no interruptions. How you walk away from this meeting will tell you a lot. If you have a good feeling about it, continue to train hard, and stand out. If the meeting is not to your satisfaction, then you have some decisions to make pertaining to your training in the future. Everything at the meeting should be in a positive nature, with nothing confrontational in any way, pertaining to any favoritism. I hope everything works out for you. Also, nice back kick, on the board breaking.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

See thats the thing, I am not sure if I SHOULD speak to him about this. I do not want to seem petty and maybe my observations are way off based, I just dont know.
As far as leaving the school I am not sure I can do that. I have a 3 year contract with them to achieve BB status, and I am in my 2nd year now. The location of the school is perfect and most of the students are pretty great....

This quote makes me shake my head.
first off, nobody on this planet is going to ever get what they want if they can not ask for it. There is no harm in talking to your instructor respectfully and voicing your concerns. A true instructor that is concerned about their students is going to listen to what you have to say, and address your concerns. A huge part of Martial Arts is developing Self Esteem and Confidence. I suggest you practice it and approach your instructor before you get bitter, your training partner gets bitter, and you infect several other students with your bitterness.

Secondly, Contracts are a huge problem in my eyes. I do not have a problem with offering a bulk discount to students for paying up front for a longer period, thats a win win situation, but to sign students into a black Belt contract that basically gives a timeline for Black Belt is a Hoax, plain and simple. Students are all different, some can do it faster, some at the pace, and others much slower, all a 3 year contract gets you is a piece of paper and a Belt, it does not give you a guarantee of any knowledge, or ability, and it does not help you do anything but feel stuck where you are.
If you are not happy, or not getting what you need, then you need to address it and find a better place to get what you want.

I do not know the quality of your school, but location does not make it a good school, it just makes it convenient, having students you like does not make it a good school, it just makes it friendly. I do not know your reasons for training, but if they are social then you sound like its probably a fine place for you, if its something else, then I suggest you look closely and think about it before continuing. If the quality was outstanding, I think you would have mentioned that, but that does not seem to be mentioned in your comments at all, thats telling.

As far as teaching preferences, or attention goes, I have seen many variations on this, and it could be any of many things. I could come up with dozens of reasons to ignore you in classes, or to focus solely on you in classes. Its impossible to guess, and speculate. I recommend talking to the instructor and going from there, I know If I was your instructor and came here and read this post, that is negative in context I would be pissed, Of course I recommend using a computer program that gives you alerts on each student in your school that directs you to ask questions, follow up, and have one on one time on a regular basis. That specifically nips this kind of stuff before it becomes a problem.