Has MMA damaged your view on your martial art?

[Cryozombie]

Do I think MMA and its techniques have value? Sure.

Do I think the MMA "attitude" of "If its not MMA, and you aint doin it in the ring you are fooling yourself about your arts effectiveness" is valid? No. TMA and Fighting in general existed lthousands of years before the 90's when MMA developed... you cant convince me that before that everyone simply... LOST.

In fact... the level of attitude that comes from most MMA fighters turns me off more to the art than the actual art itself.


​

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I am actually disgusted by the image it leaves teh general public but it does not effect my view on the quality of my system or other arts that are not MMA.

 

[Adept]

For me, personally, watching MMA was a big wake-up call. It definately caused me to question things I had previously taken for granted.

 

[Xue Sheng]

watching MMA was a big wake-up call.

This I can agree with from this perspective. MMA people train and train hard. Many TMA people, myself included these days, do not train nearly as hard. So in order to be at a comparable level one needs to train, train hard and train old school.

Like I said before in another post. When I first did Chen style many years ago the Sifu decided to train all 40 of us like he trained in China. It was very hard training and when it was all done there were only 6 of us left.

Now I am willing to admit this is a Tai Chi class and it is more likely that people signing up for Tai Chi do not expect to be doing Frog leaps the length of the room over and over again and they never thought sit-ups and push ups had anything to do with tai Chi so it is likely the turnover would be greater in a Tai Chi class that did this than say a Shaolin Long Fist, but my point is many simply do not want to train that hard in TMA these days and MMA does train hard. And if you try and up the training in some TMA classes you will loose students.

But it never damaged my view of any TMA it just made me realize that one needs to train. If anything it gave me a better perspective on TMA.

 

[Brother John]

It's been my opinion that the true "Martial Artists" of yesteryear (often founders of systems or at least those in the upper eschelons) were almost always "Mixed Martial Arts"...in that they would very often have more than one instructor and study more than just one system. MOST of them did this and it wasn't uncommon at all.

I still wonder why they (this modern movement) go by the term "Mixed Martial Arts" though. It makes it sound like their system is a hodgepodge, a mere conglomeration like an "assorted pack".....makes it sound like their training does not comprise a unified whole. Sure....the skill sets come from various/eclectic sources....and I applaud that!!! But: why "Mixed"?

....Is it simply because that's the name of the "Sporting" event?
IF SO....then it'd seem to me that they MUST be labeled a "Sport" and not a martial art. Combative Sport at least.

Your Brother
John

 

[Cirdan]

Since my interest in the competetive side of the arts is nonexistent, MMA has not opened my eyes to anything. Other than perhaps the sheer number of infantile keyboard warriors out there (from all camps).

As for the term "MMA"..
I train in wado wich is a mix of okinawan karate and japanese ju jutsu (with traces of kendo according to some). Our curriculum also contains elements from kickboxing, kung fu, tai chi and aikido. Occationally we do stuff taken from FMA. I also train at a ju jutsu school that has added elements from karate. Tough I don`t compete, I like to spar. Does this mean I train in mixed martial arts?

 

[Rook]

MMA or Mixed Martial arts refers to a specific format or "style" of fighting - even though it started out not being anything of the sort, MMA practices have become fairly standardized over the years.

Doing two or more arts does not a MMAist make. It means you do two or more arts. It would have been nice if a different name would have arisen for MMA before now, like "cagefight style" or something that would clarify it is not simply a literal mix of any particular pairing of fighting styles but rather a very specific mix of skills and techniques.

MMA as occurs out of rings and cages as well.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Do I think MMA and its techniques have value? Sure.

Do I think the MMA "attitude" of "If its not MMA, and you aint doin it in the ring you are fooling yourself about your arts effectiveness" is valid? No. TMA and Fighting in general existed lthousands of years before the 90's when MMA developed... you cant convince me that before that everyone simply... LOST.

In fact... the level of attitude that comes from most MMA fighters turns me off more to the art than the actual art itself.


​

I liked this and thought it should be repeated.
:asian:

 

[Fu_Bag]

I don't know about anyone else, but I've been in tears, and an emotional wreck, ever since MMA proved to the entire world that the entire martial arts community, themselves excluded, of course, is nothing but a bunch of larpers and practitioners of dead arts. If the depression over this doesn't lift soon, I just don't know what I'll do. Maybe I'll buy stock in Kleenex or something. I just don't know.....




Seriously though, who cares?

Please, please, please let the dead horse rest.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Like any young child I always had an interest with the martial Arts whether it was Bruce Lee performing one inch punches to the power ranger doing spinning back kicks, I always though wow I would love to be able to do that!I was in owe of the things that these practitioners could do and Hollywood seemed to endlessly feed this addiction I had.
The martial arts themselves held a Mystic aura about them that I found fascinating I was watching karate guys break bricks with hands and would think wow image if that guy hit someone or I'd see TkD fighters seem to endlessly break the laws of physics with their flying kicks and I was amazed!.......................until along came Rorion Gracie and his UFC and utterly destroyed every myth and appreciations I had about the Martial Arts, all of a sudden all the mystic spinning flying jumping attacks that I used to be certain would knockout any assailant out in an instant became clumsy and impractical,all the ''downward knife' karate chops to the neck didn't seem to have the desired effects that I read about in books infact they just looked silly,talk of points on the body that once stuck would effect internal organs didn't seem to be working like they should I failed to hear big john shout ''winning by exploding kidney from ear poke'' it just didn't happen......So now I reach the point of the post....I would like to know if any of you have experience the same thoughts about your martial art?Do you ever find yourself doubting your teacher or the techniques that are used?Do you now find your Art too one dimensional?what do you think Organisations like the UFC and Pride done for your Arts reputation?Should your style of martial art change in order to compete in MMA?...and why don't you think your art did not do too well in the first Mixed Martial Arts tournaments?

and why don't you think your art did not do too well in the first Mixed Martial Arts tournaments?

Those in the original tournaments such as the UFC were hand picked. Others thought they were good from other competitions.

Should your style of martial art change in order to compete in MMA?

No.

what do you think Organisations like the UFC and Pride done for your Arts reputation?

Nothing. Nothing positive nothing negative.

Do you now find your Art too one dimensional?

Not now, and not before.

Do you ever find yourself doubting your teacher or the techniques that are used?

No, and if someone does we pressure test it and work it until people fell comfortable for it to work.



And as to Spin kicks, I thought there was a nice video or a Pride Fight that ended with a real nice Spin kick?


Personally, I respect professional athelets and fighters for Pride and UFC and Boxing, etcetera.

Yet, I think all arts have a place and time and enjoy my training.

 

[kroh]

It's been my opinion that the true "Martial Artists" of yesteryear (often founders of systems or at least those in the upper eschelons) were almost always "Mixed Martial Arts"...in that they would very often have more than one instructor and study more than just one system. MOST of them did this and it wasn't uncommon at all.

Excellent point that most don't realize as most martial arts have become specialized over time to capitalize on the fact that the average joe has about an hour or two a few nights a week to train. Hard to train in ALL aspects when you have limited time (unlike the Hybrid /Mixed martial arts types who train hours per day every day). But of some of the old timers in Karate-do and Jujutsu I have read and spoken with, they have claimed that the old schools had a lot of cross training going on. The FMA's are often cited for their cross training. There is a lot of good stuff out there and that is the point that we should be making...

We shouldn't curse each other our methods but rather learn from each other...

"Fighting first... Systems Second..." Hock Hochheim.

Regards,
Walt

 

[Angillis Mark]

Angillis Mark

hello fellow Martial Artists,

MMA is now one of the leading Martial Arts Events everywhere in the world. It has the biggest group of payed fighters. Take the UFC --> many professional athletes.

MMA is this still a sport and a sport is bounded by rules. Hopefully! Yet we can say that these athletes are fighters. Many have good skills and the mind to overcome the many hard trainings they need to evolve. If one only trains Karate or some other style. They will have a hard struggle to fight against a well tuned diversed Martial Artist. Why? Because the better and smarter athlete always wins. MMA leads fighters to a path to explore more other styles than onlys theres. If a person wants to compete MMA, he needs to seek the path of "always evolving yourself". This is the mindset path for a Martial Artist. And in this way is MMA positive.

As there are many athletes: there are many different minds. Each athlete trains in his own way; whit his own personal trainers, etc. The basic rules in MMA are easy. Try to win from the other guy in all possible ways whit the few rules in mind. Sometimes this leads to agressive and not well tuned fights. This may come foolish in mind to many people who watch it or see it the first time. And many martial artists are against MMA. But if you have to fight for ya life... what would you do? I would use all my weapons of my body I have!

But we must never forget that MMA gives Martial Arts a bigger public and many Martial Artists the chanche to earn money. Many of them have schools and etc. Must I go on...!

As we go on and look to the past! Martial Arts has been there for a long time and will stay there. But how? The Martial Arts evolve as the communication who links the styles in the world evolves. To fight well and improvise to each situation --> diversity is good mindset. MMA makes more people realize this.

It is not everytime the big guy who wins.

 

[IcemanSK]

I'm wondering about MMA being refered to as an art. Some have suggested it is a sport for sure. But is it an art? To me, an art has a philosophy behind it & a code of conduct that is intended to be instilled in its practitioners. In the same way boxing isn't refered to as an art, because it has no tenets or codes that are universally passed down as part of the training.

I'd say MMA is a martial sport, but not an art.

 

[Angillis Mark]

Angillis Mark

hello,

what is an art??? Is it not painting or talking, etc. It indeed include philosophy...; this for some arts.

Martial Arts is a very wide world. There are arts as old as the human race whitch indeed has old masters and rich philosophy. But there are young arts like capoeïra who's dances are combined whit attacks and defenses. Is dancing not expressing feelings. And is expressing not an art!!!

Think as a fighter not only in a ring or in a dojo. Just a fighter who wants to express hemself as a complete individual who knows what fighting is. Is he not expressing hemself when he trains. Is he not showing his art to you.

Art is very delicate to point in a direction. It is the person itselfes who demonstrates what an art is. When he is master in whathever skill 'fighting, fishing, cooking, etc". He will express hemself in every situation and adapt whit his total body.

Art is the person itselve, the mind of you or me. When I express myself here in this letter to you. Or when I fight whit you in the ring or dojo. These two things: fighting and writing are my two passions. Am I not showing my art to you.

Art can be everything. It must ownly be that one person. He who is good enought to show you that what he is doing like none does or can.

He has to enspire.

 

[Andrew Green]

*sigh*

Ok, "art" has different meanings. But I don't think any require a philosophy, and if they do I think you will have a hard time showing MMA to have any less of one then "traditional" styles.

I believe the most relevant is:

1 : skill acquired by experience, study, or observation <the art of making friends>

ref: http://m-w.com

Which MMA definately fits under.

Now, is MMA purely defined by the rules? Most probably train it that way, but is Karate defined purely by the rules of kata and point sparring competition? Judo purely by competition rules? TKD?

 

[tradrockrat]

I'll take a slightly different tack -

UFC (not MMA) opened our eyes? No, it RE-opened our eyes to what had been slowly going away from martial arts for many a long year - that if you never test your art in combat or sport, your missing a very signifigant part of martial arts. We used to know that. We forgot.

MMA is now a defined and codified sport, like boxing, wrestling, judo, Olympic TKD, etc. I honestly am of the opinion that is most definitely not a MA - it is a Martial Sport. but I also see no problem with that and do not for a moment look at it as inferior - just different. This belief comes from my MA's definitions or combat, sport and art. I don't think Bama Lethwei is inferior to Banshay - just different.

Did it cause me concern? No - it got me excited that the rest of TMA's might start fighting again.

Did I feel sick after MMa guys beat my style? No, because they never did - as far as I know, no Bando practitioner has ever fought in a MMA ring - I could be wrong, but I have been looking.

But the important thing is that my style always had what the MMA's use - standing and ground fighting, and we're a pretty damn old MA. I've always believed in the effectiveness of all around fighting, but as many here know - a surprising number of Ma's have these skill sets - they were just atrophied by disuse in modern society. MMA's have reminded everybody just how effective it is. That is a fantastic thing.

Plus I love watching Matt Hughes kick ***. That guy could study tiddly winks and still be a world champion fighter.

 

[zDom]

I train hapkido. It's effectiveness was proved on the mean streets of Korea over 60 years ago - no gloves, no referrees, no rules.

The original "mixed martial art" curriculum.

And it is still being proven effective today.

...until along came Rorion Gracie and his UFC and utterly destroyed every myth and appreciations I had about the Martial Arts,

Sorry you had bubbles burst. Let me share some anecdotes.

all of a sudden all the mystic spinning flying jumping attacks that I used to be certain would knockout any assailant out in an instant became clumsy and impractical,

What works in the ring against someone who knows what you are capable of is not the same as what works when you need to defend yourself against three drunk thugs who decided to try to thump you to a bloody mess in the parking lot because you looked at their girlfriends.

No one technique works all the time on any assailant. That's why we study a variety of techniques -- and not just what we have seen proved in the ring. Sometimes word of mouth is enough when it comes to street-effectiveness.

Grandmaster Lee H. Park was a superb kicker. My instructor once saw him training in his early 40s the jump spinning heel kick on a speedbag, springing up from a full squat to bang that bag with a rhythm any professional boxer would envy.

A favorite kicking combination of GM Park, so my instructor says, was low spinning heel kick springing directly up to a jump spinning heel kick. Zip zip -- at your calf at your head..

My favorite story is the time during a street conflict he hit someone so hard with the low spinning heel kick that the guy pissed himself upon hitting the ground as his feet were knocked out from under him.

It may be easier to hit someone with a jab than a jump spinning heel kick - but God help the guy who is stunned with a jab enough to get hit by my jump spinning heel kick on the street.

I've seen people get knocked out with them in several tournaments, through both a foot pad and the head gear.

It takes a lot of training to be able to use this technique, but it's no myth.

Granted, I haven't seen anybody who kicks that good in the UFC. But we are out there.

One time I finished off an assailant with a single punch to the philtrum. The punch didn't even feel hard on my hand. I saw a flash of red -- almost like a video game -- and this 6'4 inch, 260 lb. thug rolled his eyes up into his head and fell backward to the ground. I think he was unconcious before he hit the floor. I think he lost his front upper two teeth.

I didn't have time to take a look because his friend immediately grabbed me from behind. Good thing I wasn't trying to mount him for a "flurry of elbows," eh?

all the ''downward knife' karate chops to the neck didn't seem to have the desired effects that I read about in books infact they just looked silly,

There are nerve centers and major arteries in the neck. Not to mention that we really do break blocks with knifehhands -- you think a car accident can mess up your neck?

I've had a 120 lb. girl accidently hit me in the neck accidently during technique practice -- didn't quite stop it in time. It is unpleasant. I think I'd rather catch a nice hard punch on the nose than a full power strike to the neck. Oh yea -- and the time some guy hit me in the neck with a hard roundhouse. Worse than a shot to the side of the head.

talk of points on the body that once stuck would effect internal organs didn't seem to be working like they should I failed to hear big john shout ''winning by exploding kidney from ear poke'' it just didn't happen..

Well, sorry if you thought at one time that Kill Bill technique is for real, but here is another story for you.

I had a friend in hapkido class, Darren Compas. His dad studied martial arts under GM Park. One day Darren's dad was free sparring a guy named Roger Stamp, who was known for having very nice form (Poomse, what the karate guys call kata).

Roger hit him with a sidekick so hard it dislodged his spleen.

....So now I reach the point of the post....I would like to know if any of you have experience the same thoughts about your martial art?Do you ever find yourself doubting your teacher or the techniques that are used?Do you now find your Art too one dimensional?what do you think Organisations like the UFC and Pride done for your Arts reputation?Should your style of martial art change in order to compete in MMA?...and why don't you think your art did not do too well in the first Mixed Martial Arts tournaments?[/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

I think someone in Moo Sul Kwan hapkido has the tools to compete in the UFC, although we would have to alter our training routine some to be prepared for that particular set of rules.

Just like we would alter our training routine to compete in Olympic style Taekwondo or a Judo tournament.

But let me ask YOU a question: are those Mixed Martial Art guys really prepared for a street encounter?

It's hard to "ground-and-pound" someone while someone else is standing there kicking you, stabbing you or breaking house bricks over your head.

And you don't have your wrists taped up and knuckles protected by a gloves.

I'm not saying ground work isn't important. But we have better things to do than spend all day doing mat work.

Plus I love watching Matt Hughes kick ***. That guy could study tiddly winks and still be a world champion fighter.

Nicely said. Matt is an outstanding fighter.

 

[Odin]

To make MMA fair for other arts what rules would you want taken out in order for your art to have a 'fair' chance?......because Im confused by all this on the streets babble?.....

 

[Odin]

I train hapkido. It's effectiveness was proved on the mean streets of Korea over 60 years ago - no gloves, no referrees, no rules.

The original "mixed martial art" curriculum.

And it is still being proven effective today.




Sorry you had bubbles burst. Let me share some anecdotes.




What works in the ring against someone who knows what you are capable of is not the same as what works when you need to defend yourself against three drunk thugs who decided to try to thump you to a bloody mess in the parking lot because you looked at their girlfriends.

No one technique works all the time on any assailant. That's why we study a variety of techniques -- and not just what we have seen proved in the ring. Sometimes word of mouth is enough when it comes to street-effectiveness.

Grandmaster Lee H. Park was a superb kicker. My instructor once saw him training in his early 40s the jump spinning heel kick on a speedbag, springing up from a full squat to bang that bag with a rhythm any professional boxer would envy.

A favorite kicking combination of GM Park, so my instructor says, was low spinning heel kick springing directly up to a jump spinning heel kick. Zip zip -- at your calf at your head..

My favorite story is the time during a street conflict he hit someone so hard with the low spinning heel kick that the guy pissed himself upon hitting the ground as his feet were knocked out from under him.

It may be easier to hit someone with a jab than a jump spinning heel kick - but God help the guy who is stunned with a jab enough to get hit by my jump spinning heel kick on the street.

I've seen people get knocked out with them in several tournaments, through both a foot pad and the head gear.

It takes a lot of training to be able to use this technique, but it's no myth.

Granted, I haven't seen anybody who kicks that good in the UFC. But we are out there.

One time I finished off an assailant with a single punch to the philtrum. The punch didn't even feel hard on my hand. I saw a flash of red -- almost like a video game -- and this 6'4 inch, 260 lb. thug rolled his eyes up into his head and fell backward to the ground. I think he was unconcious before he hit the floor. I think he lost his front upper two teeth.

I didn't have time to take a look because his friend immediately grabbed me from behind. Good thing I wasn't trying to mount him for a "flurry of elbows," eh?



There are nerve centers and major arteries in the neck. Not to mention that we really do break blocks with knifehhands -- you think a car accident can mess up your neck?

I've had a 120 lb. girl accidently hit me in the neck accidently during technique practice -- didn't quite stop it in time. It is unpleasant. I think I'd rather catch a nice hard punch on the nose than a full power strike to the neck. Oh yea -- and the time some guy hit me in the neck with a hard roundhouse. Worse than a shot to the side of the head.




Well, sorry if you thought at one time that Kill Bill technique is for real, but here is another story for you.

I had a friend in hapkido class, Darren Compas. His dad studied martial arts under GM Park. One day Darren's dad was free sparring a guy named Roger Stamp, who was known for having very nice form (Poomse, what the karate guys call kata).

Roger hit him with a sidekick so hard it dislodged his spleen.




I think someone in Moo Sul Kwan hapkido has the tools to compete in the UFC, although we would have to alter our training routine some to be prepared for that particular set of rules.

Just like we would alter our training routine to compete in Olympic style Taekwondo or a Judo tournament.

But let me ask YOU a question: are those Mixed Martial Art guys really prepared for a street encounter?

It's hard to "ground-and-pound" someone while someone else is standing there kicking you, stabbing you or breaking house bricks over your head.

And you don't have your wrists taped up and knuckles protected by a gloves.

I'm not saying ground work isn't important. But we have better things to do than spend all day doing mat work.



Nicely said. Matt is an outstanding fighter.

Roger sounds like a pretty amazing guy!

 

[kroh]

To make MMA fair for other arts what rules would you want taken out in order for your art to have a 'fair' chance?......because Im confused by all this on the streets babble?.....

I really do't think you would have to modify the rules of MMA in order to give other arts a chance... It would all come down to who was the better fighter. Period. If you are more conditioned, trained, and prepared than the other guy... you will win the event.

Just watched #62 over the weekend. Sobral had all the skill, talent, and instinct to be the man. Liddell put him down in the first round because that is what he trains to do. He has the right frame combined with the right mindset combined with the right training. He doesn't go to the ground because he likes to throw some one a beating. It is basic math. If you train x hours per day combined with the proper training and have a little luck, you will win.

You can't expect some one who attends Angry Joe's Karate and Pizza Emporium three times a week for an hour a class to be able to stand toe to toe with an MMA fighter like Liddell. The Angry Joe's guy might have been training for ten years, if his regimen and training principles are not as severe as Chuck's...Pizza guy is in for a rough night.

I could beat Chuck... But I would need body armor, a riot batton, and several buddies with high powered rifles on the roof next door...

...Wouldn't want it to be an unfair fight ...

Regards,
Walt