Hapkido Forms

[Turner]

My first black belt was in Hapkido, no forms were taught at all. I've seen hapkido weapon techniques, but those videos were the first time I had ever seen any hapkido empty hand forms. Very interesting.

I guess that might be one of the primary reasons why I've seen so many people teach both Hapkido and TKD together.. to provide forms. I personally don't teach forms and I've had students ask me many times to teach them forms. Its always good to see people wanting to learn more, but I just don't see enough time to include form training.

 

[rana_hapkido_panama2002]

Hi and be blessed. I am Ramon Navarro a Hapkido SabomNim from the country of Panama. According to what hyung or forms there is really none soposetly in Hapkido. Anyhow,I found 5 and they are called Hapkido Hyung Sae or stance forms for Hapkido: 1) Heaven Form 2)Earth Form 3)Inner Power Development Form 4)external Power Development Form and 5) Hapkido Development Principles Form. These forms are soposed to be around 2000 years old and utilise many Hapkido movements ; You can find a text or book from Grand/Master Kwan SickMyung from the World Hapkido Federation. ' HAP ' :asian:

 

[arnisador]

Welcome! Do you teach those forms then?

 

[old_sempai]

:asian:

I was given the impression that this art form was founded by Choi yong Sul. Born in Taegu, Korea in 1904, in 1911 he was given the Japanese name Yoshida and assigned as a servant to Minamoto no Masayoshi Takeda Sokaku. Choi served in this capacity for 30 years until conscripted to serve in the Japanese Army in 1941, and according to the traditions of Hapkido created this art form at this time. It incorporates many of the techniques found in Daito Ryu Aikijujitsu.

But, feel free to correct me.

As for the videos seen on the Ironcrane website, I have extremely strong reservations regarding the sword and "empty hand" presentations, and was surprised [and disappointed] since introductions appeared to indicate that the site possessed credibiltiy in its offerings.

However, before unleasing a fire storm please review my credentials on another thread within this forum. I have studied sword, naginata, yari along with Nihon Goshin Aikido, a "combat form of Aikido" that is a direct off-shoot of Daito Ryu, that did not come from any of the Uyeshiba schools whatsover, along with a number of other arts as well. And over the years have participated and sponsored many seminars with some very prominent MA practitioners.

:asian: :asian:

 

[WaterCircleHarmony]

Hi there it's my first time on this so please bear with the mistakes..

ok, well what i wanted to say was that i've actually done those hyung!! or at least a version of them (whether i can remember them completely is another matter) the versions of these were a lot less "flowery"....no offence meant! the forms i did were more of a TKD nature but still very flowing. what this difference derives from i do not know.
originally i was with the European Hapkido Association (which is still in existence) and then a my instructor at the time separated from the main association and formed his own association (joining another large organisation a bit later). i continued to train with this instructor for a while until i got my 1st degree. i then went to university.......there is a point of this story so hang in there...... i have been unable to find a hapkido school nearby and the one back home has totally stripped down the syllabus and stopped teaching hyung (patterns)!! i quote the instructor "we found that most of the techniques were not really practical. the kids just couldn't remember them all. as long as they can punch, kick and do basic wrist locks then we're happy." he then decided to show a yellow tag how to side kick a board without actually realising the poor guy had no hip rotation...he failed to correct him. to be honest i am no expert but i know what is shoddy teaching. they don't realise! i am really frustrated. taekwon-do with a few joint locks and street defence does not equal HAPKIDO. i know what taekwon-do is like because i train TKD!

now i am not trying to slander my old instructor (and i made no interuption to his instruction) i just want to learn hapkido! the old association branded our group "traitors" and most of the original members of our group only followed not because we were involved with the politics but only cos it was our local training area. i was the last of the original members to leave the club.

all i remember is that my first ever membership book bore the mark of the kuk sool won association and the guy inside was the late Master Kim (Paul Kim i think) i was 8 at the time. i'm now nearly 20.
anyone got any thoughts? please.

 

[vincefuess]

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that Hapkido is much more than TKD with jointlocks (which is basically what is passed off as Hapkido around here)!

I have studied Chung Do Kwan, which is "the old school" of TKD, where the forms were more similar to Shotokan forms with higher kicks. I also know and work out with a great number of TKD stylists, and have for years.

If work out with, or watch a true Hapkido stylist there is no similarity in what they do to TKD! Aside from the basic mechanics of the kicks, there is no similarity! There is a HUGE difference in your approach to fighting, your execution of technique, even the utilization of kicks!

To suggest that Hapkido is TKD is joint locks and throws added to it, is to totally miss the concept of Hapkido. TKD stylists, even at the highest levels, when competing pure TKD, look like dancers (and that is NOT an insult!). Their feet and hands move in an amazing, "popping", frenzied rhythm- fast paced deceptions and strikes. With a good Hapkidoist, the whole thing is over before you even realise it has begun! The attacker attacks- the attacker is down! And the Hapkidoist is standing there like nothing even happened. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE THERE!

I liken Hapkido to Aikido, or perhaps some styles of Kung Fu. There is no water element in TKD- Hapkido is ALL about the water element!

 

[Eraser]

Greeting all,

In response to all the post that I just finished reading.. I remember my intructor telling me that, all martial art have roots that go back to each other. I find truth in this no stictly based on his knowledge and credibility.. but in the that fact that I see it.. I mean.. Yes I train in Hapkido.. but in it I see Aikido, TKD, Kosho Ryu, Kempo... SO they must have ties going centuries back.

RIGHT???

 

[Eraser]

WOW.....

Just re-read my post.... Sombody must have laced my breakfast bar with something.... I apologize for all the simple spellling errors.... then again.. im just not a morning person.....

 

[H@pkid0ist]

K. This may be a bit long winded.
I study tratitional Sin Moo Hap Ki Do under Chong Kwan Jang Nim J.B. Lee, original student of Yong Sul Choi and later Ji Han Jae. He has had his 9th dan since 1983. I have studied in 3 different Hap Ki Do schools. 2 TKD based styles and now the traditional style. The techniques I have either learned anew or new and been revised are mor painfull and effective than when I studied at the other 2 schools. I have been with my teacher for a while now and am prepairing to test for Edan ( 2nd degree). The only thing that we have been taught that even comes close to a form is our # 1 kick. It is a Tai Chi based form that just shows you how techniques flow from one into another. My teacher told me that traditional Hap Ki Do has no forms. Never has. Weapons forms are on a whole nother level. Say like Kendo. Some you can not do without forms becouse that is the only way they were taught.
Now the differences in the techniques in the TKD schools and in the dojang I attent now are quite noticable. Most people do not realise that there is a difference between Traditional Hap Ki Do and TKD based HKD. As for Combat HKD, from what I am told, what they do is cut out things that they do not see as effective street techniques, and they do not break down each technique as much when initially teaching them. If you don't break them down enough to a new student then they can get confusing. What people don't realise is that traditional Hap Ki Do is a combat martial art. The techniques that may seem useless like the Judo grab techniques are actually quite increadable and usefull when you start to learn how to translate them into punch defenses and basic understanding of them . This goes with many other techniques as well. Believe me, I'm not a master by far, but between all my reaserch and the countless hours of training I put in each week (26-35) I have learned quite a bit about the style that I have come to love.
Whew.. I hope that wasn't to much. I'm just glad that I found a site where more people can relate to what I'm about.

 

[Chris from CT]

Originally posted by H@pkid0ist
K. This may be a bit long winded.
I study tratitional Sin Moo Hap Ki Do under Chong Kwan Jang Nim J.B. Lee, original student of Yong Sul Choi and later Ji Han Jae.

Hey, welcome aboard.

What is your teacher's full name?

Take care.

 

[H@pkid0ist]

Welllll. Korean version is Jung Bai Lee
And American version is ( honestly ) James Bond Lee
It was the name the Feds gave him when he came to the states.:asian:

 

[Chris from CT]

Originally posted by H@pkid0ist
Welllll. Korean version is Jung Bai Lee

Thanks, I couldn't figure out who he was from the initials. I haven't heard of him before.

Originally posted by H@pkid0ist
And American version is ( honestly ) James Bond Lee
It was the name the Feds gave him when he came to the states.

That's kind of cool.... Grandmaster 007!

Take care.

 

[hapkido_mgd]

Welcome H@pkid0ist,

Always a pleasure to read ideas from new people. This is a great forum and I am grateful for the time I am able to spend here.

Welcome,

:asian:

 

[Eraser]

H@pkidoist.. nice to meet ya...

Yes i must agree its very nice to have other fellow hapkio-ists in the chat..

Have fun in here.. i know I do!! :asian:

 

[WaterCircleHarmony]

okay here goes

kicho hyung parts 1 to 5 (although i heard that there are 10)

sa do hyung (peasants pattern)

bulkyo hyung (monks pattern)

sun bi hyung

jung gup hyung

dae gup hyung

go gup hyung

koon jung form

are but a few of the patterns taught in the hapkido class i had attended (can't remember the others!!) but if original hapkido had no forms then, WHERE DID THEY ALL COME FROM????

kuksool practitioners maybe? can you answer this?

 

[Chris from CT]

Originally posted by WaterCircleHarmony
... if original hapkido had no forms then, WHERE DID THEY ALL COME FROM????

kuksool practitioners maybe?

If you think about it, you're kind of right.

All of the forms came from the students of the founder; Choi, Yong Sool. They added them afterwards into their own curriculum. Suh, In-Hyuk the founder of Kuk Sool Won, was a student of Choi, Yong Sool at one time. If you research your lineage you may be able to find out who added the ones you do.

Take care

 

[rana_hapkido_panama2002]

Hi WaterCircleHarmony and be blessed.

I am sertain that Chris is correct in that if you check the background to these forms you will end up finding out whose form it is the developer !

Mi Teachers Teacher is DojuNim Ji, Han Jae and in our SongMooKwan Hapkido developed a few forms sort of saying but ended up making 2 long forms, each 100 movements each ! The first we call the basic form and includes all that can be used for street fighting from move one or white belt level to move 100 is to second Dan. The second we call the advanced form made up of kicking combination with the same leg and doing on both sides and includes rolling and acrobatics for escaping or shortening distance for street combat and it is from second Dan up level of techniques !

Also, there is the posibility that these teachers had background in other martial arts that used forms and made them to facilitate their students home workouts !

HAP

Ramon Navarro
Hapkido SabomNim
SongMooKwan Hapkido
Los Llanos de Curundu, Panama

Originally posted by WaterCircleHarmony

okay here goes

kicho hyung parts 1 to 5 (although i heard that there are 10)

sa do hyung (peasants pattern)

bulkyo hyung (monks pattern)

sun bi hyung

jung gup hyung

dae gup hyung

go gup hyung

koon jung form

are but a few of the patterns taught in the hapkido class i had attended (can't remember the others!!) but if original hapkido had no forms then, WHERE DID THEY ALL COME FROM????

kuksool practitioners maybe? can you answer this?

 

[Patty]

My teacher teaches pure hapkido, and yes, there are a number of forms. There are eight different forms, plus basic attacking and basic blocking. Each is extremely scripted and precise. If you want more info, e-mail me and tell me what level you are looking for and I can get you the descriptions. Basic blocking is the earliest form, followed by basic blocking. After that comes Hyung 1, 2, 3, etc. Hope this is helpful.

 

[H@pkid0ist]

We have 2 basic forms and they are small. Our first one is a short Ti Chi based form. The second is the first combined with the first for basic kicks, put together to resemble almost a dance.

 

[greendragon]

I practice Sin Moo Hapkido with Doju Nim Ji Han Jae and there are NO forms in Sin Moo. In the past I practiced Hapkido under the Korea Hapkido Association and the Moo Ye Kwan organization and there were NO forms with either of those orgs either, forms are definately something individual teachers have added to Hapkido, in the purest sense of the art Hapkido has NO forms,, but to each his own,,

Mike Tomlinson