Hapkido = a blend?

[arnisador]

The hapkido throws are closer to the jujutsu throws from which Judo was developed, aren't they? They may go against, rather than with, the joint.

 

[Brother John]

It's my understanding that the founder of Hapkido (who's name eludes me at the moment) studied Daito Ryu Aikijutsu (father art from which Ueshiba drew Aikido) alongside Master Ueshiba. ((am I spelling his name right???)) That then, later.... first of second generation students, who were also quite proficient in TKD then merged their methods. So now there are strains of Hapkido that do forms and kick more.... and strains that don't do forms and hardly kick at all.

I'm really quite the outsider in this, but from my limited research...this is the case.

Cooboration?? Steve????

Your Brother
John

 

[American HKD]

The hapkido throws are closer to the jujutsu throws from which Judo was developed, aren't they? They may go against, rather than with, the joint.

Greetings,

That's right HKD throws go against the joint when throwing to create pain, off balance the mind and body throught the pain, or just to break something and move on.

I teach some judo type throws without the locks like plain shoulder, hip, reaps, etc., but just to white & yellow belts to learn the basics of throwing and mechanics.

After that it's the real stuff.

 

[searcher]

Searcher: Jigoro Kano took dangerous tecniques away from jujutsu when he made his judo so it could be practissed and competed safely with full power.

My reasoning behind my statement was from the experience of being thrown by judo-ka. There are 65 throws in the judo syllabus. They cover many aspects of throwing, including throws that can be used for self-defense. They(judo-ka) throw hard enough to inflict damage to the uke. They have no need to throw against the joint, but they can do so if needed.

 

[American HKD]

My reasoning behind my statement was from the experience of being thrown by judo-ka. There are 65 throws in the judo syllabus. They cover many aspects of throwing, including throws that can be used for self-defense. They(judo-ka) throw hard enough to inflict damage to the uke. They have no need to throw against the joint, but they can do so if needed.

Greetings

From that comment you have alot to learn about Judo / Jujutsu.

I agree judoka can throw hard but you missed the whole point of the locks.

Judo is a sport that's why they took out many lock and dangerous moves, it's take much LESS EFFORT to throw someone esspecially a stronger person after a joint lock is applied they go with you and don't resist.

Joint control and Locks make it many times easier to move people the way you want them to, it's that simple.

Joint Pain = Easier compliance, easier to throw, easier to off balance, greater damage to Opp. etc.

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Greetings

From that comment you have alot to learn about Judo / Jujutsu.

I agree judoka can throw hard but you missed the whole point of the locks.

Judo is a sport that's why they took out many lock and dangerous moves, it's take much LESS EFFORT to throw someone esspecially a stronger person after a joint lock is applied they go with you and don't resist.

Joint control and Locks make it many times easier to move people the way you want them to, it's that simple.

Joint Pain = Easier compliance, easier to throw, easier to off balance, greater damage to Opp. etc.

I agree Master R., There are also other differances between Hapkido & Yudo/Judo style throws. The best way to understand the differances are to see and feel them! The thing to remember is that when you add ANY rules to make a Martial Art a sport you are taking out a certain spirit that is needed for self defense. This is not to say that a Yudoin/ Judoka could not defend themselves or that a Taekwondo student would be lost in a real fighting situation at all. It is the focus of the training and IMHO you will fight how you train! :asian:

Take care

 

[American HKD]

I agree Master R., There are also other differances between Hapkido & Yudo/Judo style throws. The best way to understand the differances are to see and feel them! The thing to remember is that when you add ANY rules to make a Martial Art a sport you are taking out a certain spirit that is needed for self defense. This is not to say that a Yudoin/ Judoka could not defend themselves or that a Taekwondo student would be lost in a real fighting situation at all. It is the focus of the training and IMHO you will fight how you train! :asian:

Take care

I agree, thanks

 

[Dave Stratton]

I feel to have an opinion on what judo is and is not, one should at the very least have been a student of the art for a period of time. The concepts of both hapkido and judo are more similiar than different. When you are pushed..pull and when you are pulled....push. Throwing, no matter what the art requires you to unbalance your opponent. This is found in both styles(in my experience) and is the most important concept to master. If you cannot make an opponents joint vulnerable, then a joint lock is very difficult and becomes a battle of strength. As far as judo throws allowing uke to fall safe...this is a core concept of kodokan judo...mutual welfare and benefit....it's hard to train while injured. Be this as it may, look up such throws as ura-nage, osoto-gari, and tomoe-nage and notice that injury or lack of it is the choice of not only the thrower, but the reciever as well. If the reciever is not experienced and ready for a throw , injury is very possible. I have felt the difference between the throwing techniques of judo and hapkido....I have also felt the similarities.

 

[howard]

I feel to have an opinion on what judo is and is not, one should at the very least have been a student of the art for a period of time. The concepts of both hapkido and judo are more similiar than different. When you are pushed..pull and when you are pulled....push. Throwing, no matter what the art requires you to unbalance your opponent. This is found in both styles(in my experience) and is the most important concept to master. If you cannot make an opponents joint vulnerable, then a joint lock is very difficult and becomes a battle of strength. As far as judo throws allowing uke to fall safe...this is a core concept of kodokan judo...mutual welfare and benefit....it's hard to train while injured. Be this as it may, look up such throws as ura-nage, osoto-gari, and tomoe-nage and notice that injury or lack of it is the choice of not only the thrower, but the reciever as well. If the reciever is not experienced and ready for a throw , injury is very possible. I have felt the difference between the throwing techniques of judo and hapkido....I have also felt the similarities.

Dave, excellent points imo. I know very little about judo and have never trained in it, so I can't speak from any experience in that art, but I certainly agree with the points you've made about throwing, general unbalancing and strength vs. technique in Hapkido. Our Hapkido teacher has a judo background, and when he teaches Hapkido throws, he teaches the very concepts you mention in your post.

 

[Dave Stratton]

I had no idea mike d'aloia had any judo experience...interesting info...thanks howard...keep training


dave

 

[howard]

I had no idea mike d'aloia had any judo experience...interesting info...thanks howard...keep training

dave

Hi Dave, Mike studied judo briefly at some point early in his MA career. I'm not sure if he learned it in a judo-only school, or in another school that teaches a type of hybrid self defense. But I know he has a very sound basis in the fundamentals of judo throwing, and is very good at throwing himself.

I expect that if you contacted him via his website, he'd let you know the details. He's very open and easy to communicate with.

Regards, Howard

 

[Dave Stratton]

Cool....thanks Howard...take Care

Dave

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Nice to see you here Dave :asian:

It is important to keep in mind that Judo/Yudo style throws are some what different from Hapkido style throws even though some of the same principles apply to both. I too have some experience with Judo and think Judo is a great art to learn. It should not however be confused with orthodox Hapkido.

Just some thoughts :asian:

Take care,

 

[Dave Stratton]

Nice to see you here Dave :asian:

It is important to keep in mind that Judo/Yudo style throws are some what different from Hapkido style throws even though some of the same principles apply to both. I too have some experience with Judo and think Judo is a great art to learn. It should not however be confused with orthodox Hapkido.

Just some thoughts :asian:

Take care,

No confusion here..

D. Stratton
3rd dan hapkido
1st dan judo

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Dave,

I will be hosting a friendship workout sometime in late October or early November here at my dojang in Dover, NH and you are more than welcome to join us and we can explore the differances in a friendly non-competative manner

All my best,

 

[howard]

Cool....thanks Howard...take Care

Dave

Hey Dave, I just put 2 and 2 together and realized which Dave you are... nice to hear from you, hope all is well.

I didn't realize you held dan rank in Judo. That being so, you are obviously well placed to compare the similarities and differences between Judo and Hapkido throwing techniques.

Take care...

 

[howard]

Cool....thanks Howard...take Care

Dave

Hey Dave, I just put 2 and 2 together and realized which Dave you are... nice to hear from you, hope all is well.

I didn't realize you held dan rank in Judo. That being so, you are obviously well placed to compare the similarities and differences between Judo and Hapkido throwing techniques.

Take care...

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Hey Dave, I just put 2 and 2 together and realized which Dave you are... nice to hear from you, hope all is well.

I didn't realize you held dan rank in Judo. That being so, you are obviously well placed to compare the similarities and differences between Judo and Hapkido throwing techniques.

Take care...

Speaking of being well placed to compare the similarities and differences, I would say that GM Lim would probably be best suited to do this! The posts I have made are from the things he has taught and per conversations we have had over the last 10 years. :asian:

 

[howard]

Speaking of being well placed to compare the similarities and differences, I would say that GM Lim would probably be best suited to do this! The posts I have made are from the things he has taught and per conversations we have had over the last 10 years. :asian:

Does GM Lim hold dan rank in Judo / Yudo?

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Howard,

Why don't you ask him!! :whip: