Grandmaster?

[Gerry Seymour]

I hate that term and refuse to use it. I don't see the point of it apart from ego flashing.

But if it’s what an association calls a given rank, what’s the ego issue?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

People in the USA and other parts of the West seem to like titles and accolades that elevate them above the rest.

I think in China at least, they don’t have the same attachment nor see much use for them. Unless they are marketing to the USA or other parts of the West.

Agreed. I see it in TJMA, with instructors introducing themselves as “Sensei Smith”.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The whole "sir" and "mister" thing, falls a little flat for me too. We are not in the military. We are in an after school program for adults. The places where I continue to go, we find ways to treat each other as adults and as people first.

I am comfortable on both sides of this. I came up in the Sir/Mr. environment, so it works for me. I usually maintain that same etiquette with my own students, just out of habit. I don’t really like it outside of class, and would be just as comfortable going by first name when teaching. I don’t see a problem with either way, and just call people by whatever term they use when introducing themselves. I do sometimes slip up and call people Sir/Ma’am in an informal class when visiting, but it usually goes unnoticed.

 

[now disabled]

I am comfortable on both sides of this. I came up in the Sir/Mr. environment, so it works for me. I usually maintain that same etiquette with my own students, just out of habit. I don’t really like it outside of class, and would be just as comfortable going by first name when teaching. I don’t see a problem with either way, and just call people by whatever term they use when introducing themselves. I do sometimes slip up and call people Sir/Ma’am in an informal class when visiting, but it usually goes unnoticed.

That a fair point, the environment you grew up in and the dare I say the way folks were raised etc can make a difference in what you are comfortable with and just take things like Sir/Ma'am etc as common place.
I guess changing times
I don't have a problem with a person being a Grandmaster as long as they have been awarded it by a recognized organisation. I have never met a grandmaster and even the shihan I have met never expected in class to be called that and they definitely out of class were just normal people (well a couple were old style lol and didn't socialize)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That is like me calling my own father, “Grandfather”. It just shows ignorance.

Or a very odd family tree.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Certainly, it should be someone who is "all knowing" of their art. I do not consider a seasoned veteran in any MA automatically a GM. I have always been told gaining GM status has a lot to do with how you have grown your art and your community. I suppose that means there is a political element to it? For me, under no circumstance should someone self-name themselves Grand Master. There is just not enough substance to justify the title.

“All knowing” isn’t achievable.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In China was told that the Grandmaster is the top of the tree, and has been elected to be in that position for his outstanding ability. He is the best person to fit the role of leader of that particular style. So there can only be one Grandmaster, who is the head of that specific style. You can't be the Grandmaster of Yang style in Birmingham or Manchester , there is only one Grandmaster who we all look up to. Sometimes we call out Master "Shi Fu" and his Master should then be "Shi Gong" (like Father and grandfather)

If you decide to call yourself Grandmaster you are saying that this is my system and I am the head of this system. So if I called myself a Grandmaster my system could no longer be Chen Style Tai Chi as there is already a Grandmaster for that. I would have to invent a name for my new system.

Now that it is more profitable to teach kung fu, you will see teachers pontificate themselves through their students hyping them as a grandmaster. These teachers hype themselves as grandmasters, even when their sifu is the true Grandmaster of their style, even while their Sifu is still alive; which is very disrespectful in Traditional Chinese Martial Arts. This denigrates the term grandmaster and implies that the student is at the same ability of their Sifu.

Click below for more:
Grandmaster

That is one view of the title. If an organization uses it differently (as many do) then it has different meaning.

 

[JR 137]

Or a very odd family tree.

Being from the south, of course you’d go there with it.
Stuff like that doesn’t cross most of us Yankees’ minds.

 

[jks9199]

Or a very odd family tree.

Can't resist...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Being from the south, of course you’d go there with it.
Stuff like that doesn’t cross most of us Yankees’ minds.

Hey, every good comedian uses what he knows, man.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Can't resist...

Well, it was going through my head when I posted that, so it seems only fair.

 

[Reedone816]

Then that's a shame. I'm nowhere near a master, let alone a grandmaster, but I want my students to know more and do more with our art than I do.

Can't be helped really, each person experience is unique. If i put it in cook, even with the same recipe the taste can be different between the cook and its apprentice, only through experience may the apprentice may match the taste of the master, and it still probably different but not inferior.

Sent from my BV8000Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Xue Sheng]

In China was told that the Grandmaster is the top of the tree, and has been elected to be in that position for his outstanding ability. He is the best person to fit the role of leader of that particular style. So there can only be one Grandmaster, who is the head of that specific style. You can't be the Grandmaster of Yang style in Birmingham or Manchester , there is only one Grandmaster who we all look up to. Sometimes we call out Master "Shi Fu" and his Master should then be "Shi Gong" (like Father and grandfather)

If you decide to call yourself Grandmaster you are saying that this is my system and I am the head of this system. So if I called myself a Grandmaster my system could no longer be Chen Style Tai Chi as there is already a Grandmaster for that. I would have to invent a name for my new system.

Now that it is more profitable to teach kung fu, you will see teachers pontificate themselves through their students hyping them as a grandmaster. These teachers hype themselves as grandmasters, even when their sifu is the true Grandmaster of their style, even while their Sifu is still alive; which is very disrespectful in Traditional Chinese Martial Arts. This denigrates the term grandmaster and implies that the student is at the same ability of their Sifu.

Click below for more:
Grandmaster

Talked and trained with more than one Martial artists from China, some now in their 80s. There are no Grandmasters in China. One Chinese martial artists calls another a Grandmaster in Beijing and you are looking for a fight because you just called him fake.

 

[Buka]

My mom considered herself somewhat formal. She refereed to me as "Master" until I was twelve. It was a form of address from the Vanderbilt Complete Book of Etiquette. Which is kind of comical when you're a little kid running around the projects having rock fights.

When I got into the Arts I was introduced to the term Master in the way we all know it here. I thought it really cool. And the folks identified as Master seemed really, really good. Not that I actually saw them do anything, but they looked good. As the years passed I got to know and train with some of them. And they were really, really good. I addressed them as Master in the appropriate settings and, at least for most of them, by their name when we were just chilling.

More time goes by and I meet my first Grandmaster. Don't really remember who it was. But I figure whatever anybody wants to be refereed to is just fine by me. Especially in their world. I am a strong believer in Martial Protocol and adhere to it strictly, at least to the best of my ability.

More time goes by and I start meeting more and more Masters. Some of these newer Masters appear to be snot nosed little popcorns. Most have technique that would get my green belts a slap, but I do my best not to smile sarcastically and I politely nod.

I meet more Grandmasters, too. Their gis seem to be a cross between old fashioned Movie Ushers uniforms and race car drivers logo suits. I don't really see them work out, but they do have a touch of pomposity about them that hints of royalty. Gotta' be something to that. But on the flip side, they don't appear to be in the physical shape I associate with a lifelong training of a Martial Art, and they're really not that old. But, hey, what do I know.

I go with the flow. I address them anyway they want. As does every single student I've ever taught.

 

[dvcochran]

I am comfortable on both sides of this. I came up in the Sir/Mr. environment, so it works for me. I usually maintain that same etiquette with my own students, just out of habit. I don’t really like it outside of class, and would be just as comfortable going by first name when teaching. I don’t see a problem with either way, and just call people by whatever term they use when introducing themselves. I do sometimes slip up and call people Sir/Ma’am in an informal class when visiting, but it usually goes unnoticed.

Sir/Ma'am is such an engrained part of my southern upbringing. It is such a part of my day to day vernacular I hope it goes unnoticed or at least understood. It is an intent of respect, doesn't matter if you are younger or older. If I think you deserve the respect, I will likely address you that way at some point.
I hope we can all agree this world needs more respect for mankind. At the very least to understand it.

 

[JR 137]

My mom considered herself somewhat formal. She refereed to me as "Master" until I was twelve. It was a form of address from the Vanderbilt Complete Book of Etiquette. Which is kind of comical when you're a little kid running around the projects having rock fights.

When I got into the Arts I was introduced to the term Master in the way we all know it here. I thought it really cool. And the folks identified as Master seemed really, really good. Not that I actually saw them do anything, but they looked good. As the years passed I got to know and train with some of them. And they were really, really good. I addressed them as Master in the appropriate settings and, at least for most of them, by their name when we were just chilling.

More time goes by and I meet my first Grandmaster. Don't really remember who it was. But I figure whatever anybody wants to be refereed to is just fine by me. Especially in their world. I am a strong believer in Martial Protocol and adhere to it strictly, at least to the best of my ability.

More time goes by and I start meeting more and more Masters. Some of these newer Masters appear to be snot nosed little popcorns. Most have technique that would get my green belts a slap, but I do my best not to smile sarcastically and I politely nod.

I meet more Grandmasters, too. Their gis seem to be a cross between old fashioned Movie Ushers uniforms and race car drivers logo suits. I don't really see them work out, but they do have a touch of pomposity about them that hints of royalty. Gotta' be something to that. But on the flip side, they don't appear to be in the physical shape I associate with a lifelong training of a Martial Art, and they're really not that old. But, hey, what do I know.

I go with the flow. I address them anyway they want. As does every single student I've ever taught.

Whenever I hear of a young boy being called master, I can only think of this

Haven’t seen that one in ages. Such a great and underrated movie. I was too young to get the “Master Bates” name when I saw it in the theaters. And yes, that’s where I got “Master Bates” from in my TKD guy post. I’m not that creative on my own.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sir/Ma'am is such an engrained part of my southern upbringing. It is such a part of my day to day vernacular I hope it goes unnoticed or at least understood. It is an intent of respect, doesn't matter if you are younger or older. If I think you deserve the respect, I will likely address you that way at some point.
I hope we can all agree this world needs more respect for mankind. At the very least to understand it.

Though I grew up in the South, I grew up without that aspect - all my parents' friends were first-name only. But my MA upbringing has been almost entirely in schools that used Sir/Ma'am and Mr./Ms. - no first names with instructors.

 

[dvcochran]

Though I grew up in the South, I grew up without that aspect - all my parents' friends were first-name only. But my MA upbringing has been almost entirely in schools that used Sir/Ma'am and Mr./Ms. - no first names with instructors.

It is definitely a generational thing. Protocol and decorum just aren't as important it seems. Sometimes I think it is a good thing to get them out of the way in certain scenarios such as working in groups. It can help the creative element. Sometimes I see it under utilized when being a group leader, aka, supervisor, manager, team leader, instructor. etc...
It is the few many screwing it up for the few analogy. The few insecure, overbearing jerks that demand it without justification make it hard to be on both the sending and receiving ends of decorum.

 

[skribs]

It is definitely a generational thing. Protocol and decorum just aren't as important it seems. Sometimes I think it is a good thing to get them out of the way in certain scenarios such as working in groups. It can help the creative element. Sometimes I see it under utilized when being a group leader, aka, supervisor, manager, team leader, instructor. etc...
It is the few many screwing it up for the few analogy. The few insecure, overbearing jerks that demand it without justification make it hard to be on both the sending and receiving ends of decorum.

In general, I think tone is far more important than the specific words you use. If someone says "thanks", you can say "you're welcome" dripping with disdain and it's rude, but you can say "no problem" in a chipper tone and it comes across as pleasant.

 

[lansao]

Grand...as in grandfather. A father who's offspring has also become a father.
Thus a master who's students have also become masters.
The hard part is to define master...good luck with that.

I agree with this and add it’s relative to each art’s level system.