GrandMaster Steve? Who qualifies as an authentic Grandmaster?

[lklawson]

Case in point, Bruce Leroy.

He had the training, the skills, and by the end of the movie, he had the Glow.

But when Sho Nuff asks him "Who's the master" the final time, Bruce doesn't say "I am" because he just thinks that. He says it because his own sifu had told him that at the beginning. It took the whole movie for him to realize it.

When your teacher tells you you're a master, go with it. "When the student is ready, the master will appear".

View attachment 27488

Always was one of my favorite movies.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Yep. And I will say it again; The MA's need some sort of certifying medium similar to skilled trade people, professional teachers, engineers, etc...
Being really good in competition carries a lot of weight but that is only one area for an ever increasing set of metrics.

There are a bunch of them. There's Kukkikwon, ITF, United States Judo Association, the Japanese Aikido Association, the Japan Karate Association, United States Judo Federation, the All England Judo Federation, the American Knife Fighting Congress, and the list goes on and on and on.

Or were you suggesting that the American Knife Fighting Congress guys should be setting standards for the Wing Chun Federation?

We already have certifying bodies for the various martial arts similar to skilled trade organizations.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

If someone is a "Master Electrician", "master" is modifying "electrician". It's saying that they have attained some mastery at the work of being an electrician. It's a job title, and specific to that realm. I think that just saying "Master Bill" can imply something broader.

And a master of XYZ martial art is any different?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Urban Trekker]

Trash talking has always been part of fighting. It's standard fare in boxing and wrestling and can be documented back to the earliest periods of mankind. There are texts of Egyptians Pharos trash talking their enemies and of the Nubians trash talking the Egyptians. My favorite is when the English broadsword fencers were trash talking the new continental rapier systems as being frenchy and sissy.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Jokes aside, I can't imagine combat sports without trash talking. Any fighter who has trash-talking ability will want to use it to gain a psychological advantage over their opponent by reducing their confidence, intimidating them, or goading them into an uncontrollable rage so that they lose focus during the match. Seems pretty standard to me.

 

[lklawson]

Of course. But there is no centralised body regulating those individuals.

Sure there is. Very nearly every martial arts school is a member of a larger certifying organization. It is fairly standard.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

A real fight ends one of three ways.

You walk away wondering how you won.

Or you wake up later, and told you lost.

Or you die.

Or you walk away knowing exactly why you won, what preparations, training and skills were instrumental, and why your opponent lost.

Not every fight involves two untrained opponents who have no idea if what they're doing will work or why.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Jokes aside, I can't imagine combat sports without trash talking. Any fighter who has trash-talking ability will want to use it to gain a psychological advantage over their opponent by reducing their confidence, intimidating them, or goading them into an uncontrollable rage so that they lose focus during the match. Seems pretty standard to me.

It is apparently one of the key functions of the Maori's haka.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[wolfeyes2323]

Not the Chess you are thinking of, the game of GO, which is a strategy game that requires the same depth of mind to play. IMO Grand Master in MA is a misnomer , it is more like a professor as distinguished from teacher.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Trash talking has always been part of fighting. It's standard fare in boxing and wrestling and can be documented back to the earliest periods of mankind. There are texts of Egyptians Pharos trash talking their enemies and of the Nubians trash talking the Egyptians. My favorite is when the English broadsword fencers were trash talking the new continental rapier systems as being frenchy and sissy.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Again, I personally don’t care for it. I grew up fighting and seeing fights in my neighborhood. I have seen people maimed for life, I have seen people die. Its not always a tv show. There is a big difference between sport fights and street fights. I see a lot of people talk about fighting on here, and it is clear to me that most of them live in fantasyland about what that really means. It means you debase yourself. It means you debase another human being. You can’t take that back. To my mind, boasting, trash talking, etc. is a way to convince themselves of the courage they don’t really have. So when I see that I usually interpret it as fear and weakness of character. As previously mentioned, there are a few rare exceptions, Muhammed Ali for one.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

A real fight ends one of three ways.

You walk away wondering how you won.

Or you wake up later, and told you lost.

Or you die.

Nonsense.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Again, I personally don’t care for it. I grew up fighting and seeing fights in my neighborhood. I have seen people maimed for life, I have seen people die. Its not always a tv show. There is a big difference between sport fights and street fights. I see a lot of people talk about fighting on here, and it is clear to me that most of them live in fantasyland about what that really means.

In the short time I've been here on MT, I've seen a dozen or so guys come on here telling everyone else that they don't know what they're talking about, "so here's the real deal."

I try not to engage it, but please understand: there are plenty of people here who grew up in the ghetto, live in high crime areas, and have also done what they've needed to survive. Plenty of people come here thinking they're the only one. That's not going to stop, but I really wish it would.

It means you debase yourself. It means you debase another human being. You can’t take that back. To my mind, boasting, trash talking, etc. is a way to convince themselves of the courage they don’t really have. So when I see that I usually interpret it as fear and weakness of character. As previously mentioned, there are a few rare exceptions, Muhammed Ali for one.

I don't know where you're from. But I grew up in the projects myself and having lived in many other impoverished areas, I know first hand that trash talking has always been a fact of life in places where fights occur. And for the same reasons I stated in my previous comments.

And when it comes to real fights, you said that trash talking is a way for someone to convince themselves of the courage they don't really have. And you know what? Sometimes that's true. And you know something else? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

When I was young, I've used my trash talking abilities to get dudes who wanted to fight me (and who I thought would have beaten me) to back off. And if that didn't work (I'd say it was 50/50), it helped me muster that courage to go through with it. It's a concept called "think, do, become" or "acting as if." And it's never a bad thing.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Nonsense.

Obviously.

Are you one of those poor folks who log on seeking the truth about fighting?

Don't do that.

 

[lklawson]

Again, I personally don’t care for it. [...] There is a big difference between sport fights and street fights. I see a lot of people talk about fighting on here, and it is clear to me that most of them live in fantasyland about what that really means.

Sometimes there's a difference between "sport" and not, but sometimes there wasn't. The Romans sure didn't have a problem making "sport fighting" the same thing as "real fighting." Historically speaking, still, "trash talking" was completely common during the days when "fighting words" actually meant a duel to the death. Never heard of Hamilton and Burr?

It means you debase yourself. It means you debase another human being. You can’t take that back. To my mind, boasting, trash talking, etc. is a way to convince themselves of the courage they don’t really have. So when I see that I usually interpret it as fear and weakness of character.

You're certainly free to believe that but the history seems to indicate otherwise.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Oily Dragon]

Or you walk away knowing exactly why you won, what preparations, training and skills were instrumental, and why your opponent lost.

Not every fight involves two untrained opponents who have no idea if what they're doing will work or why.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Fine, there are only 4 possible outcomes.

 

[lklawson]

Fine, there are only 4 possible outcomes.

1. Win
2. Lose
3. Surrender
4. Both mutually decide to leave the field
5. Mutual loss (double death)
6. One runs away

The point is that the whole topic is messy, chaotic, and has a lot of variables which make it silly to try to over-simplify it.

 

[Oily Dragon]

1. Win
2. Lose
3. Surrender
4. Both mutually decide to leave the field
5. One runs away

The point is that the whole topic is messy, chaotic, and has a lot of variables which make it silly to try to over-simplify it.

Damn it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Obviously.

Are you one of those poor folks who log on seeking the truth about fighting?

Don't do that.

Please.

 

[TenHands]

In my opinion, anyone who has been agreed by a large amount of other people to be a "Grandmaster" definitely qualifies as a Grandmaster. In other words, it shouldn't be a rank or achievement but rather something that just happens. Take Grandmaster Beaudoin (may he rest in peace) of the WTSDA for example; he achieved his title not just through being elected but by being looked up to by a large amount of people due to his ability.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Please.

Thank you.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Sometimes there's a difference between "sport" and not, but sometimes there wasn't. The Romans sure didn't have a problem making "sport fighting" the same thing as "real fighting." Historically speaking, still, "trash talking" was completely common during the days when "fighting words" actually meant a duel to the death. Never heard of Hamilton and Burr?



You're certainly free to believe that but the history seems to indicate otherwise.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Look I’m not trying to start anything here. I’m talking about my opinion which is based on my experiences. I work in surgery. I grew up in the inner city. My father was a career criminal with an extremely violent nature. I have an opinion on the current culture of martial arts as it stands. I am expressing What I believe to be MOSTLY true MOST of the time. How many of you have really seen a person maimed or killed in person? How many of you have seen some one die from violence that started as a result of trash talking? Have you had the blood on YOU? I’m talking about being human here. I have known a few tough guys, that’s how I know I’m not one. I have regrets about some of this stuff, that’s why I think the way I do. You do you, it’s just my opinion.