Governor denies clemency for ex-gang leader

[Sapper6]

little tookie-bear got what he deserved. good riddance to the bastard.

he killed four innocent people for petty cash. he created one of the most violent gangs of American history. this ****bag has personally ruined thousands of lives. if he really gave a damn out of redemption, the best he could do is volunteer his own life in return.

albeit, no suprise, i saw a pic of Sean Penn at a candlelight vigil last night outside of the prison. what the hell is wrong with all these crackhead celebrities anyway?

oh well, may Stanley "Tookie" Williams burn in hell.

**** Post edited for profanity. Please consult the Rules link on the blue menur bar to review this policy - G. Ketchmark

 

[Sapper6]

my apologies to anyone offended.

 

[Cryozombie]

keeping an offender behind bars, and monitored until his natural death provides that function. It does it at less cost, and less intrusion, than the capital punishment.

Is it really cheaper to keep someone incarcerated for 50-60 years then to kill them after say 10-20?

How much does an executuion cost?

How much does one inmate in Prison cost?

Thats interesting...

 

[Satt]

That whole cost issue has allways pi**ed me off... ONE 9mm round to the head really wouldn't cost that much would it???

 

[michaeledward]

How much does an executuion cost?

A Duke University study found... "The death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of imprisonment for life."

How much does one inmate in Prison cost?

Figures from the General Accounting Office .... Total annual costs for all U.S. Prisons, State and Federal, was $17.7 billion in 1994 along with a total prison population of 1.1 million inmates. That amounts to $16100 per inmate/year.
(GOA report and testimony FY-97 GGD-97-15 )


http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7

 

[Tgace]

Its only cheaper when you figure in the costs of the endless appeals.....

 

[Kreth]

albeit, no suprise, i saw a pic of Sean Penn at a candlelight vigil last night outside of the prison.

Did Sean bring his own cameraman this time?
And as far as the relative cost of death penalty vs. life imprisonment, a lot has to do with our screwed up justice system that lets a convicted murderer make appeal after appeal. You should get one shot to appeal your case, and the penalty for a baseless appeal should be instant execution.

 

[mrhnau]

Did Sean bring his own cameraman this time?
And as far as the relative cost of death penalty vs. life imprisonment, a lot has to do with our screwed up justice system that lets a convicted murderer make appeal after appeal. You should get one shot to appeal your case, and the penalty for a baseless appeal should be instant execution.

I'm not a fan of endless appeals. However, instant execution for a baseless appeal might be a bit harsh. I'd be a fan of enforcing a strict cut-off time frame, say 5 years. Or perhaps a strict cut-off in number of appeals. I'd also like to see some practicallity for very cut and dry cases, where evidence is totally overwhelming (video, DNA, host of witnesses, weapons, ect). With cases where the evidence is totally overwhelming, endless appeals seem a bit ridiculous...

I can understand the difficulty here. Everyone will feel they have a right for another appeal, because of course, their case is not cut and dry. Having a panel to review cases and be a bit more strict in allowing appeals might be helpful.

Perhaps allowing appeals only to higher courts? That way, if a higher court refuses an appeal, its over. there also is a practical limit on appeals (can't go higher than supreme court). Having a single higher court will also limit the number of cases that have reasonable merit of being passed. They don't have time to hear every single appeal!

MrH

 

[Hollywood1340]

I've always thought death was the easy way out. Let him suffer in this life before he moves on.

 

[Ping898]

What I find amusing is if someone is given a death sentence and they then say they don't want all the appeals, they just want the sentence carried out, then suddenly they are interviewed by shrinks and put on a suicide watch...

 

[mrhnau]

What I find amusing is if someone is given a death sentence and they then say they don't want all the appeals, they just want the sentence carried out, then suddenly they are interviewed by shrinks and put on a suicide watch...

interesting!

So, the question must be asked, why put them on suicide watch? If suicide is committed, isn't the same end reached? And in a cheaper way? Paying additional for a psychologist seems a bit odd... why not simply let the execution be carried out?

MrH

 

[Kreth]

interesting!

So, the question must be asked, why put them on suicide watch? If suicide is committed, isn't the same end reached? And in a cheaper way? Paying additional for a psychologist seems a bit odd... why not simply let the execution be carried out?

MrH

Probably for the same reason that they use an alcohol swab before a lethal injection, ie. no sensible one...

 

[Ping898]

interesting!

So, the question must be asked, why put them on suicide watch? If suicide is committed, isn't the same end reached? And in a cheaper way? Paying additional for a psychologist seems a bit odd... why not simply let the execution be carried out?

MrH

I think the reason for a suicide watch is that they don't want him to end his life, but rather want the decision taken out of the prisoner's hands and put into that of the states and death the come when they say not when the inmate says....or so I've heard....

 

[mrhnau]

I think the reason for a suicide watch is that they don't want him to end his life, but rather want the decision taken out of the prisoner's hands and put into that of the states and death the come when they say not when the inmate says....or so I've heard....

I've not related to a victim (via family/friend being murdered), so I'm honestly asking this question. Would those seeking justice feel cheated in some way? Or do they feel vengeance is not being met in this circumstance? I've heard alot of women/children victims claim that they want people behind bars or dead so they won't victimize again. Is this a general idea? Wouldn't suicide answer that just as well as state execution?

MrH

 

[sgtmac_46]

Probably for the same reason that they use an alcohol swab before a lethal injection, ie. no sensible one...

I always thought that was humoruous as well. The reality is that the medical technician who injects the condemned is simply following the guidelines he always follows when doing an injection or blood draw.

 

[sgtmac_46]

A Duke University study found... "The death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of imprisonment for life."

Most of that includes the court cost of endless appeals.

Figures from the General Accounting Office .... Total annual costs for all U.S. Prisons, State and Federal, was $17.7 billion in 1994 along with a total prison population of 1.1 million inmates. That amounts to $16100 per inmate/year.
(GOA report and testimony FY-97 GGD-97-15 )

That's the 'average' inmate, who is usually minimum or medium security. Someone like Tookie, even if he avoided the death penalty, would likely end up in a maximum security holding facility. Ultimately, if he continued his gang leadership inside, they'd move him to a supermax facility where he'd be in lockdown 23/7. That costs considerably more than $16100 per inmate/year.

 

[sgtmac_46]

It seems many of Tookie's supporters were professing that they wanted Tookie around to continue the message about the 'dangers' of gang violence. Well, it seems that Tookie IS continuing the message.....as an object lesson.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

It seems many of Tookie's supporters were professing that they wanted Tookie around to continue the message about the 'dangers' of gang violence. Well, it seems that Tookie IS continuing the message.....as an object lesson.

Yes, indeed. I'd also like to know what other murders he was involved with while he led the Crips in person during the 1970's. They did commit murders in the 1970's didn't they? Or maybe they were just plain harmless entrepeneurs (LOL). What exactly do his supporters think he did during that time?

 

[sgtmac_46]

Yes, indeed. I'd also like to know what other murders he was involved with while he led the Crips in person during the 1970's. They did commit murders in the 1970's didn't they? Or maybe they were just plain harmless entrepeneurs (LOL). What exactly do his supporters think he did during that time?

Well, considering he executed 4 people without batting an eye, at the age of what? 26? He was a gang member starting at least in 1969. You don't just wake up one morning and say, at 26, 'i'm going to commit a couple armed robbery and shoot 4 people in cold blood'.

These weren't his first murders, and they sure as heck weren't his first violent acts (or his last)...they were just the ones he got caught doing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tookie_Williams

"Court records show that as Darryl and Sims walked to the counter area to take money from the register, Williams walked behind Owens, pulled the sawed-off shotgun from under his jacket and told Owens to “shut up and keep walking.” While pointing the shotgun at Owens’ back, Williams directed him to a back storage room and ordered him to lie down. Coward said that he next heard the sound of a round being chambered into the shotgun. He then heard a shot and glass breaking, followed by two more shots. Records show that Williams shot out a security monitor and then killed Owens, shooting him twice in the back at point blank range as he lay prone on the storage room floor."

"Back in L.A., Williams, Darryl, Coward, and Sims then fled in the two cars and returned home to Los Angeles. They had netted approximately $120 in the robbery. Once back in Los Angeles, Sims asked Williams why he had shot Owens. Williams said that he “didn’t want to leave any witnesses.” Williams also said he killed Owens “because he was white and he was killing all white people.” Coward testified that Williams had bragged about the shooting, stating, “You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him,” as he made gurgling or growling noises and laughed about Owens’ death."

It strikes me that, in all these years, he never voiced any regret for executing a man who simply had the misfortune of being a store Tookie wanted to rob. All these years, and not one 'You know, I was young, and I was wrong, he still haunts me."

"According to court transcripts at approximately 5:00 am on March 11, 1979, Stanley Williams entered the Brookhaven Motel at 10411 South Vermont Avenue. After entering the hotel lobby area, Williams broke down the door that led to the private office. Inside the private office, Williams shot and killed 76 year old Yen-Yi Yang. Williams then shot and killed Yang’s wife, sixty-three year old Tsai-Shai Yang. Lastly, Williams killed Yang’s daughter, 43 year old Yee-Chen Lin, after which he emptied the cash register and fled the scene."

"Robert Yang, son of Yen-Yi and Tsai-Shai, was asleep with his wife in their bedroom at the Brookhaven Motel when he was awakened by the sound of somebody breaking down the door to the motel’s office. This sound was immediately followed by the sound of a female scream, followed by gunshots. When Robert entered the motel office he found that his mother, his sister, and his father had all been shot, and noticed that the cash register was open and money was missing. It was later determined that the robbery of the Brookhaven Motel robbery/murders had netted Stanley Williams approximately one hundred dollars. Paramedics transported Yee-Chen Lin to Centinela Hospital where she was pronounced dead at 7:36 am."

"Witnesses testified that Williams referred to the victims in conversations with friends as "Buddha-heads", a derogatory term for Asians."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tookie_Williams


http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/a/tookie15.htm

These are just a few of Tookie's activities AFTER being convicted

• On June 30, 1981, just two months after being sentenced, Williams was involved in a violent fight with another inmate. Williams was observed kneeling over the other inmate and striking him in the head with his closed fists. When Williams was ordered to cease fighting, he ignored the order. Only after repeated orders to stop, did Williams stop his violence. (P. Exh. 6).
• On January 26, 1982, Williams was ordered to lineup for his return to his cell. Williams refused the order and became hostile. The guard then explained the line-up procedure to Williams. Williams responded by saying "you'll get yours boy, I can do anything now because I know what the gunmen will do…one of these days I'll trick you boy." (P. Exh. 7).
• On January 28, 1982, Williams had two separate instances where he threw chemical substances at guards. In one of these instances, Williams threw a chemical substance in the eyes and on the face of a guard. As a result of that assault, the guard suffered from chemical burns to these areas and had to be taken to the hospital where he received emergency care. (P. Exh. 8).
• On February 16, 1984, a guard saw Williams bending over another inmate and striking him with his closed fists. In an effort to stop the attack, the guard blew his whistle and drew his weapon. Williams, however, continued to fight. Only after a guard fired a warning shot, did Williams stop fighting. (P. Exh. 10).
• On June 8, 1984, Williams was observed participating in inappropriate behavior with a female visitor. When the guard advised the female of the prison policies, Williams became verbally hostile and stated, "you are looking around too much and that's not your job. I have dusted many officers on the street, one more would not make any difference." (P. Exh. 11).
• On October 10, 1988, Williams was involved in a fight that led to him being stabbed. Prison officials subsequently learned that this stabbing was done in retaliation for a September 22, 1988, stabbing of another inmate ordered by Crips leader Stanley Williams. (P. Exh. 13).

http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/a/tookie15.htm

Again, 4 innocent people executed in cold blood. Yet, in all these years between then and now, not one 'I was wrong'. Not one 'Their faces still haunt me'. Not one word to the family, 'I was an animal, and I'm sorry.' Tookie talked a lot about gang violence leading to being where he was, yeah. But he NEVER said one word about the 4 lives he snuffed out. Not one apology. Not one whisper. Redemption? Hardly.

And what's more, Tookie was supposed to be rewarded because, late in life, he decided 'Killing and violence is wrong'....Well, no crap, Tookie. Most of the rest of us learned that as little kids. It took you being placed on deathrow to figure that out? Sorry, no sale.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Well, considering he executed 4 people without batting an eye, at the age of what? 26? He was a gang member starting at least in 1969. You don't just wake up one morning and say, at 26, 'i'm going to commit a couple armed robbery and shoot 4 people in cold blood'.

These weren't his first murders, and they sure as heck weren't his first violent acts (or his last)...they were just the ones he got caught doing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tookie_Williams

"Court records show that as Darryl and Sims walked to the counter area to take money from the register, Williams walked behind Owens, pulled the sawed-off shotgun from under his jacket and told Owens to “shut up and keep walking.” While pointing the shotgun at Owens’ back, Williams directed him to a back storage room and ordered him to lie down. Coward said that he next heard the sound of a round being chambered into the shotgun. He then heard a shot and glass breaking, followed by two more shots. Records show that Williams shot out a security monitor and then killed Owens, shooting him twice in the back at point blank range as he lay prone on the storage room floor."

"Back in L.A., Williams, Darryl, Coward, and Sims then fled in the two cars and returned home to Los Angeles. They had netted approximately $120 in the robbery. Once back in Los Angeles, Sims asked Williams why he had shot Owens. Williams said that he “didn’t want to leave any witnesses.” Williams also said he killed Owens “because he was white and he was killing all white people.” Coward testified that Williams had bragged about the shooting, stating, “You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him,” as he made gurgling or growling noises and laughed about Owens’ death."

It strikes me that, in all these years, he never voiced any regret for executing a man who simply had the misfortune of being a store Tookie wanted to rob. All these years, and not one 'You know, I was young, and I was wrong, he still haunts me."

"According to court transcripts at approximately 5:00 am on March 11, 1979, Stanley Williams entered the Brookhaven Motel at 10411 South Vermont Avenue. After entering the hotel lobby area, Williams broke down the door that led to the private office. Inside the private office, Williams shot and killed 76 year old Yen-Yi Yang. Williams then shot and killed Yang’s wife, sixty-three year old Tsai-Shai Yang. Lastly, Williams killed Yang’s daughter, 43 year old Yee-Chen Lin, after which he emptied the cash register and fled the scene."

"Robert Yang, son of Yen-Yi and Tsai-Shai, was asleep with his wife in their bedroom at the Brookhaven Motel when he was awakened by the sound of somebody breaking down the door to the motel’s office. This sound was immediately followed by the sound of a female scream, followed by gunshots. When Robert entered the motel office he found that his mother, his sister, and his father had all been shot, and noticed that the cash register was open and money was missing. It was later determined that the robbery of the Brookhaven Motel robbery/murders had netted Stanley Williams approximately one hundred dollars. Paramedics transported Yee-Chen Lin to Centinela Hospital where she was pronounced dead at 7:36 am."

"Witnesses testified that Williams referred to the victims in conversations with friends as "Buddha-heads", a derogatory term for Asians."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tookie_Williams


http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/a/tookie15.htm

These are just a few of Tookie's activities AFTER being convicted

• On June 30, 1981, just two months after being sentenced, Williams was involved in a violent fight with another inmate. Williams was observed kneeling over the other inmate and striking him in the head with his closed fists. When Williams was ordered to cease fighting, he ignored the order. Only after repeated orders to stop, did Williams stop his violence. (P. Exh. 6).
• On January 26, 1982, Williams was ordered to lineup for his return to his cell. Williams refused the order and became hostile. The guard then explained the line-up procedure to Williams. Williams responded by saying "you'll get yours boy, I can do anything now because I know what the gunmen will do…one of these days I'll trick you boy." (P. Exh. 7).
• On January 28, 1982, Williams had two separate instances where he threw chemical substances at guards. In one of these instances, Williams threw a chemical substance in the eyes and on the face of a guard. As a result of that assault, the guard suffered from chemical burns to these areas and had to be taken to the hospital where he received emergency care. (P. Exh. 8).
• On February 16, 1984, a guard saw Williams bending over another inmate and striking him with his closed fists. In an effort to stop the attack, the guard blew his whistle and drew his weapon. Williams, however, continued to fight. Only after a guard fired a warning shot, did Williams stop fighting. (P. Exh. 10).
• On June 8, 1984, Williams was observed participating in inappropriate behavior with a female visitor. When the guard advised the female of the prison policies, Williams became verbally hostile and stated, "you are looking around too much and that's not your job. I have dusted many officers on the street, one more would not make any difference." (P. Exh. 11).
• On October 10, 1988, Williams was involved in a fight that led to him being stabbed. Prison officials subsequently learned that this stabbing was done in retaliation for a September 22, 1988, stabbing of another inmate ordered by Crips leader Stanley Williams. (P. Exh. 13).

http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/a/tookie15.htm

Again, 4 innocent people executed in cold blood. Yet, in all these years between then and now, not one 'I was wrong'. Not one 'Their faces still haunt me'. Not one word to the family, 'I was an animal, and I'm sorry.' Tookie talked a lot about gang violence leading to being where he was, yeah. But he NEVER said one word about the 4 lives he snuffed out. Not one apology. Not one whisper. Redemption? Hardly.

And what's more, Tookie was supposed to be rewarded because, late in life, he decided 'Killing and violence is wrong'....Well, no crap, Tookie. Most of the rest of us learned that as little kids. It took you being placed on deathrow to figure that out? Sorry, no sale.

Exactly! He was a worthless specimen of humanity and for the life of me, I do not understand why people are trying to turn him into a hero. We destroy rabid dogs, don't we?