Going to check out a new school today

[skribs]

From what he's posted, it's a KKW school. @skribs is a KKW 3rd Dan from a KKW school that didn't follow the KKW curriculum. They used some forms that the owner made up. He claimed they were the Palgwae forms, but they're not.

He added in the Taegeuks the last few years I was there, and they were very close to correct.

I also went through the Taegeuks in the school I recently attended.

I don't personally see why they're held in such high regard over other forms or why these are "correct" and everything else is wrong. It's just different arrangements of techniques. It doesn't take years of learning a new form to tell students "don't forget to chamber" and "tighten your fist" and help them work on all of the basics that are going to be true of any form, even if some of the details are slightly different. (And I'm not going into that much detail when I help white belts, anyway).

 

[HighKick]

He added in the Taegeuks the last few years I was there, and they were very close to correct.

I also went through the Taegeuks in the school I recently attended.

I don't personally see why they're held in such high regard over other forms or why these are "correct" and everything else is wrong. It's just different arrangements of techniques. It doesn't take years of learning a new form to tell students "don't forget to chamber" and "tighten your fist" and help them work on all of the basics that are going to be true of any form, even if some of the details are slightly different. (And I'm not going into that much detail when I help white belts, anyway).

Well, 'very close' is great in horseshoes, hand grenades, and some will argue with women.

There is just sooo much more to forms than knowing the Specific patterns and movements. Not something that should be casually glossed over. Even when teaching kids that are not ready to understand all the concepts. It is the classic how/why argument.

Relationships take time to form.

As far as the KKW poomsae being 'correct' or 'superior', I fully agree. They are an overly simplified set of patterns, most suited for teaching kids the basics. Much more about the 'how'.

But knowing the patterns does Not a teacher make. "Respect is earned, not given". Much the same for relationships.

 

[Dirty Dog]

He added in the Taegeuks the last few years I was there, and they were very close to correct.

2+2 = 5 is very close to correct.

I also went through the Taegeuks in the school I recently attended.

I don't personally see why they're held in such high regard over other forms or why these are "correct" and everything else is wrong.

They're not correct. They're simply the required curriculum according to the KKW. So if you don't know them, (or don't do them correctly) it's odd to claim KKW rank. Studying physiology didn't make me an engineer, so how does studying non-KKW curriculum equal KKW rank?

I agree that they're not difficult to learn. TKD forms, in general, are not terribly long, and if you know how to perform the movements it's pretty easy to string them together in the right order.

I still think you should just open your dream school, teach what you want, and award rank based on your criteria.

It's just different arrangements of techniques. It doesn't take years of learning a new form to tell students "don't forget to chamber" and "tighten your fist" and help them work on all of the basics that are going to be true of any form, even if some of the details are slightly different. (And I'm not going into that much detail when I help white belts, anyway).

There's so much more to forms than this, but we've discussed that before.

 

[skribs]

Studying physiology didn't make me an engineer, so how does studying non-KKW curriculum equal KKW rank?

That would be more of an apt description if you were comparing TKD to wrestling. This is more like if you had studied canine physiology and are brought a cat. Yes, there are differences, but 99% of what you've learned about how bodies function is still relevant.

However, going back to the comparison of TKD to wrestling, I am coaching in Muay Thai and BJJ, despite very little experience there. In Muay Thai, they actually like that I'm trained in something different (but adjacent) because I can help with techniques that the Muay Thai coaches aren't as familiar with. In BJJ, I don't have nearly as much responsibility, but they've found it useful just to have extra adults on the mat to help out with the kids.

I still think you should just open your dream school, teach what you want, and award rank based on your criteria.

Eventually. Maybe. Probably. For now, I'm going to focus on learning as much as I can, and helping out as much as I can along the way.

And if I do, I'm not starting everyone over at white belt when they come to my school.

 

[wab25]

It doesn't take years of learning a new form to tell students "don't forget to chamber" and "tighten your fist" and help them work on all of the basics that are going to be true of any form, even if some of the details are slightly different.

I have been studying the first Kata in Danzan Ryu for almost 25 years now. I am still learning more about it, and finding new things in it that I never saw before. Additionally, I am learning and finding new applications for it. Our first Kata looks like this:

 

[Earl Weiss]

Well, 'very close' is great in horseshoes, hand grenades, and some will argue with women.

It's also OK for atom bombs. You could miss the exact point by a mile.....

 

[Earl Weiss]

...............................r, so how does studying non-KKW curriculum equal KKW rank?

That would be a question for Early KKW people when the KKW issued rank to people in any number of systems.

Seems that was part of their genius. They too the long view. Acquire people from any number of systems award rank and over time require that a single system be adopted as opposed to Original TK-D plan which was having to adopt a single system from the get go to be TK-D.

 

[Dirty Dog]

That would be a question for Early KKW people when the KKW issued rank to people in any number of systems.

Seems that was part of their genius. They too the long view. Acquire people from any number of systems award rank and over time require that a single system be adopted as opposed to Original TK-D plan which was having to adopt a single system from the get go to be TK-D.

When they do that (there are still options to transfer rank) part of the deal is that you agree to teach the KKW curriculum. It's unenforced and unenforceable, but that's the agreement.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Assistant instructor isn't necessarily teaching. At my main school it typically meant holding pads and helping set up and break down from drills, and keeping kids on task. Maybe lead warmups.

At the school I recently attended, it was expected of me and my parents to take a leadership role right away because of our rank.

In my BJJ school, anyone purple and up pretty much assumes a leadership role when they walk in, because at the very least they're going to be asked questions during rolls. Heck, as a blue belt, I've taken on a little bit of that role in the adult class. I'm coaching in the kid's class, and by "coaching" I mostly mean keep them on task and keep them from doing stupid stuff and hurting each other or themselves.

I had specifically said I wanted to volunteer as an assistant instructor, not that I wanted to start teaching classes.

I can see where our communication has failed. To me "teaching" is anything you wouldn't ask a low-ranking student to do. I'd easily ask a blue belt (2nd rank attained) to hold pads, help setting up, etc. "Assistant instructor" would be someone who would, well, instruct. They might oversee a portion of the class, run drills while I'm working with an idividual, and give corrections wherever needed.

Answering questions when asked is very different from helping teach. I wonder if the instructor in question would have understsood what you meant, or might have misunderstood it the way I did.

If someone with experience (even in a different art) said, "I'd be willing to help out however I can," I'd hear that very different from "I'd be willing to help teach." As your post points out, they could mean the same thing or two very different things.

 

[skribs]

I can see where our communication has failed. To me "teaching" is anything you wouldn't ask a low-ranking student to do. I'd easily ask a blue belt (2nd rank attained) to hold pads, help setting up, etc. "Assistant instructor" would be someone who would, well, instruct. They might oversee a portion of the class, run drills while I'm working with an idividual, and give corrections wherever needed.

Answering questions when asked is very different from helping teach. I wonder if the instructor in question would have understsood what you meant, or might have misunderstood it the way I did.

If someone with experience (even in a different art) said, "I'd be willing to help out however I can," I'd hear that very different from "I'd be willing to help teach." As your post points out, they could mean the same thing or two very different things.

And he could have said he doesn't want me to do that, or that he has concerns. He didn't address it at all.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And he could have said he doesn't want me to do that, or that he has concerns. He didn't address it at all.

He didn't need to. He was probably just feeling you out.

 

[Earl Weiss]

When they do that (there are still options to transfer rank) part of the deal is that you agree to teach the KKW curriculum. It's unenforced and unenforceable, but that's the agreement.

Was that the Agreement in the 1970's? 1980's? I trained at a WT School 1975-1977 With General Choi's 1972 Text on the Desk in Korean and Teaching Chang Hon patterns. Such curriculum was then common in KKW school because so many Koreans then newly associated with the KKW were Progeny of the Chang Hon system and did not yet learn the new stuff.

 

[JowGaWolf]

He didn't need to. He was probably just feeling you out.

It' what I would do. I wouldn't just give someone teaching Authority in a school that I ran just because of belt rank. That's just asking for problems.

 

[silent killer]

Here, I'm only 1 degree underneath him, and I was really close to getting my 4th before I moved. It will be an interesting experience.

check your Ego at the door bro...
He´s the owner & Sensei you aint

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It' what I would do. I wouldn't just give someone teaching Authority in a school that I ran just because of belt rank. That's just asking for problems.

And if they didn't bring it up in discussion, I might not, either. Especially if the email gave me a notion of what kind of person I was going to meet, and the meeting didn't match that notion (for instance, I expected arrogance, but they were polite and respectful).

 

[Dirty Dog]

Was that the Agreement in the 1970's? 1980's? I trained at a WT School 1975-1977 With General Choi's 1972 Text on the Desk in Korean and Teaching Chang Hon patterns. Such curriculum was then common in KKW school because so many Koreans then newly associated with the KKW were Progeny of the Chang Hon system and did not yet learn the new stuff.

I honestly don't know, but my belief is that it's always been a requirement for the transfer of rank. I didn't get KKW rank until something like 2010 (I can check if necessary, but the precise date seems irrelevant). I spent a few weeks learning the Taegeuk forms from YouTube videos posted by GM Kyu Hyung Lee, tested on them in front of a KKW Master and was awarded rank. Among the papers was an agreement to teach the KKW curriculum. We're supposed to present ourselves as a KKW school, teach the KKW curriculum, and award KKW rank. We don't. We're a MDK school. Our mandatory curriculum is MDK. As you experienced, it's long been common enough to find "KKW" schools that don't teach the KKW curriculum. Most in that group simply ignore the KKW curriculum, teach their own thing, and then sign off on KKW rank. I find that disingenuous. We teach our curriculum. If a student wants KKW Dan rank, they are required to learn the KKW curriculum or we don't sign off on the KKW application. Most of our students choose to stick with MDK rank, in any case.

 

[skribs]

Saw this today on Facebook from this guy.

It was brought to our attention today about the reviews on Google and how it could have possibly led to losing potential students. We have no control over the reviews and who can review us. Google leaves this open for anyone that has a Google account to review whether they have attended or not. All who have reviewed our dojang and rated it a 1 star are slandering our school name and defaming my character. If at any time you have any questions, feel free to pull us aside and ask. We have kept the communication open and will continue to do so.

It got worse. I looked it up, and many of the 1-star reviews said the place isn't safe. One posted mugshots of him and reported that he had been arrested (but not convicted) for sexual assault. It's an anonymous Google review and I know you can take a mugshot and make any claim you want about it, but I couldn't find anything in a quick search to disprove the allegation.

He had posted the above as a response to that review. He also posted "Who are you and why are you rating me 1 star?" to all of the other 1-star reviews. It was only 1-star and 5-star reviews, nothing in-between, and an almost even mix.

I'm staying out of it because I'm planning on being a business competitor of his and I don't want to start a flame war with him. But holy crap I dodged a bullet by not signing up.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Saw this today on Facebook from this guy.



It got worse. I looked it up, and many of the 1-star reviews said the place isn't safe. One posted mugshots of him and reported that he had been arrested (but not convicted) for sexual assault. It's an anonymous Google review and I know you can take a mugshot and make any claim you want about it, but I couldn't find anything in a quick search to disprove the allegation.

Do your own research on Line reviews can be genuine, or a total fabrication by someone with all sorts of bad motives.

 

[skribs]

Do your own research on Line reviews can be genuine, or a total fabrication by someone with all sorts of bad motives.

I'm only posting this drama on here because I'm remaining and keeping him anonymous.

If he's got a record, and those reviews have been posted and people have been doing research, I'm sure that what needs to be done is being done by the people who need to do it: the parents who might bring kids to the school, and hopefully one of them has gotten someone with more authority involved.

I am neither a private detective, nor a prospective student or their parent (this was before I read this story), nor a police officer, or anything of that nature.

 

[HighKick]

My previous school, which didn't do the KKW forms for the longest time, started implementing them shortly before I left. I learned the forms there. I checked my learning and learned some new details at my brief stint at another local school. Although some of those details may be the WT way instead of the KKW way of doing things.

Other than that, there isn't much of a KKW curriculum, at least not one that's required for schools to teach. Many of the other things KKW teaches are part of their classes. I know how to kick, punch, and move.

Even if I do fly through the curriculum, there are time-in-grade requirements I wouldn't be able to bypass. But as @Monkey Turned Wolf said, I am already ranked in this organization. I don't even know if I could test for my 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree here, because I already have it in the organization.

How could offering to volunteer possibly be seen as threatening?

I offered to volunteer my time as an assistant instructor. I'm a 3rd degree black belt, he's a 4th degree black belt, so it's not like he's that senior over me. That's not to say I can't learn anything from him. But it's not like he's orders of magnitude more experienced.

I would not expect you to test through the BB Dan levels again, but I would make certain you know the curriculum well through all color belts and beyond. This could easily include non-WT/KKW material that this specific school teaches.

People are people. It may be a simple as a slight clash of personalities between you and the instructor. Maybe he/she was having a bad day. Who knows? Time together usually fixes these issues. Having confidence in a person takes time. It should never be assumed just because a person has a piece of paper.

When I said "empty your plate", that means to let go of the baggage you carry from your past training. Nothing more.

Have you had a chance to at least audit or attend a trial class? The proof is in the pudding.