If it weren't for the manufactured media circus we would not have heard of these two men and and the case likely wouldn't have made it past the grand jury that was bypassed. I don't see a legal benefit for GZ in there being a criminal trial over there not being one.
George Zmmerman trial begins...
- Thread starter billc
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If it weren't for the manufactured media circus we would not have heard of these two men and and the case likely wouldn't have made it past the grand jury that was bypassed. I don't see a legal benefit for GZ in there being a criminal trial over there not being one.
Ahh.....well, this sheds a entirely new light on this for me then, because like the vast majority, I was under the impression that the dispatcher did in fact tell GZ not to follow. So going on this then, IMO, it appears that TM, NOT GZ, was the aggressor. If GZ lost sight and was in fact returning to his car, and TM confronted him, well.....
Amazing how these tidbits of key info seem to be overlooked by the protestors and those that're encouraging protests.
Good question. We see people fighting with cops all the time, and they have more tools available to them than GZ did at that time.
Tgace
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Let me approach this delicately...
There has been a lot of mention in the media of what we can do to "honor" T. Martin...including words from the president.
While Im not saying that we should be trashing Martins name, or that expressions of regret over the whole situation are uncalled for, I can't think of any reason either of these guys deserve "honor" for their actions or lives. We seem to have a tendency to turn people into Saints simply because they are dead in this culture. While Im not encouraging speaking ill of the dead, I don't think that not telling the truth is a better idea.
There has been a lot of mention in the media of what we can do to "honor" T. Martin...including words from the president.
While Im not saying that we should be trashing Martins name, or that expressions of regret over the whole situation are uncalled for, I can't think of any reason either of these guys deserve "honor" for their actions or lives. We seem to have a tendency to turn people into Saints simply because they are dead in this culture. While Im not encouraging speaking ill of the dead, I don't think that not telling the truth is a better idea.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
You're right. In the land of make believe, anything is possible. My opinion is what it is, but it's just conjecture. GZ benefited from the overcharging and it worked to his favor, whatever else might have happened. It's possible that under different circumstances, he would not have been charged at all.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I agree wholeheartedly. As I and several others have said all along, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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Interesting, I always thought that the term "Cracka" was a racist term used to describe white people.
According to the star witness for the pro-Trayvon Martin side, Rachel Jeantel, apparently I must be misinformed.
Here's her interview from yesterday's Piers Morgan show:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...people_we_in_a_new_school_our_generation.html
According to the star witness for the pro-Trayvon Martin side, Rachel Jeantel, apparently I must be misinformed.
Here's her interview from yesterday's Piers Morgan show:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...people_we_in_a_new_school_our_generation.html
Is the unimaginable possible in the land of make believe?
Yes, I understood that's where you were coming from. I thought it was obvious that we were running through 'what if' scenarios and second guessing the various actions that were taken and decisions that were made.
Eventually the judge allowed a lesser charge to help increase the chance of a guilty verdict.
Yeah, I thought the same thing as you. Oh look:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cracka
Apparently Rachel isn't getting her facts straight.
Edit: I stand corrected. #14 clarifies what Rachel is saying.
I think we all need to look carefully at this case from a legal perspective, social perspective, the perspective of a self defense practitioner, the perspective as a ccw holder, how race applied to this case, etc. This case has some very wildly interesting components to it. Which is just one reason why it has taken the media by storm. Hopefully, everyone on this board can learn from this and avoid mistakes made either by Martin or Zimmerman!
without the racial aspect, even the gun involved would have made the story barely a blurb in the media....
But the layers of issues are of interest for our little community.
I think there is a lot to look at.
As a CCW holder I think you can learn from this situation.
As someone who practices the martial arts we can learn from this by scrutinizing the law and then our own states law's.
As a martial practitioner we can also look at the Ground and Pound aspect in this case.
As a US citizen we can surely see there is a difference of opinion with some just based on the race components of this case.
We can look also closely to the "Stand Your Ground Law".
Plus there is more.....
There is a lot to learn from this case! Tragic as this situation is!!!
As a CCW holder I think you can learn from this situation.
As someone who practices the martial arts we can learn from this by scrutinizing the law and then our own states law's.
As a martial practitioner we can also look at the Ground and Pound aspect in this case.
As a US citizen we can surely see there is a difference of opinion with some just based on the race components of this case.
We can look also closely to the "Stand Your Ground Law".
Plus there is more.....
There is a lot to learn from this case! Tragic as this situation is!!!
Steve
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"Stand Your Ground" had zero bearing on this case. All that the laws state, is that if you are attacked, you are not obligated to retreat from the area, even if you are able to retreat.
Since he was getting his head bashed on the concrete after being knocked down by a sucker punch, George Zimmerman had no ability to retreat from a hostile engagement. Hence, this was a matter of simple self-defense, nothing more, nothing less.
Either his self-defense was justified, or it wasn't. The severity of the charge really doesn't matter here, whether it would have been murder 2 or manslaughter. If he had a valid claim to self-defense (and he certainly did), then it's equally applicable to defeating either charge.
Since he was getting his head bashed on the concrete after being knocked down by a sucker punch, George Zimmerman had no ability to retreat from a hostile engagement. Hence, this was a matter of simple self-defense, nothing more, nothing less.
Either his self-defense was justified, or it wasn't. The severity of the charge really doesn't matter here, whether it would have been murder 2 or manslaughter. If he had a valid claim to self-defense (and he certainly did), then it's equally applicable to defeating either charge.
I would hope it would've mattered for manslaughter, if that had been the main charge presented--it was GZ who caused the situation and some blame should accrue if you start a confrontation that you end up losing. Regardless, given the testimony and the absence of any other witnesses, I think Not Guilty would've been the right legal verdict for either charge. The legal result was correct--but to my mind GZ was still wrong to follow TM then leave the car and go after him.
ballen0351
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So should anyone or any neighborhood be allowed to have a neighborhood watch program?
Shouldn't they be registered with every level of government?
Yes. Per the National Sheriff's Assoc., which sponsors the actual Neighborhood Watch program, they shouldn't follow or engage--just report.
