George Zmmerman trial begins...

[ballen0351]

4 people were murdered over the weekend in Baltimore. Nobody cares. One 17 year old get killed in Fla and 500 people show up in Baltimore to protest the verdict. People are stupid.

 

[Tgace]

4 people were murdered over the weekend in Baltimore. Nobody cares. One 17 year old get killed in Fla and 500 people show up in Baltimore to protest the verdict. People are stupid.

No ****....this whole meme of cherry picked cases that get spun up by the press does little but widen the divide between us.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[arnisador]

Agreed. This is media-driven--selling outrage to sell ads.

 

[Carol]

Situation getting tense in LA. After a standoff with the police, protesters are mobbing the W hotel on Hollywood Blvd

 

[Carol]

LAPD calling it a riot now...sounds of breaking glass from the hotel. The rioters are possibly heading to the CNN building.

 

[billc]

Why the Stand Your Ground law didn't apply to this case...

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/07/in-zimmerman-post-mortems-confusion-reigns.php

But, as has been explained here and many other places, Florida’s stand your ground law played no part in the Zimmerman prosecution. Under traditional principles of self-defense, if you are threatened or assaulted somewhere other than in your home, you have to flee, if you can, rather than using deadly force in self-defense. That is the principle that is amended by stand your ground laws. Under such statutes, if you are attacked in a public place and you reasonably fear that you may be killed or incur great bodily injury, you don’t have to run away. You can stand your ground and fight back, including the use of deadly force.

This principle, obviously, comes into play only if you can run away.

If you can’t retreat–if, like George Zimmerman, you are lying on your back with an adversary sitting on top of you and beating on you–you have always been entitled to use deadly force in self-defense, if you reasonably fear death or great bodily injury. Zimmerman’s lawyers did not invoke Florida’s stand your ground law. They did not rely on it; they did not argue it to the jury; they did not ask for a “stand your ground” pretrial hearing, which, in cases where the statute applies, can lead to dismissal of the charges against the defendant. There is no reason why anyone should ever mention Florida’s stand your ground law in connection with the Zimmerman case.

 

[Big Don]

LAPD calling it a riot now...sounds of breaking glass from the hotel. The rioters are possibly heading to the CNN building.

Damn those republicans! Oh wait...

 

[Carol]

Damn those republicans! Oh wait...

I know, right? :lol:

I think the LAPD and the NYPD each did an excellent job. The protesters were given a lot of latitude to march and have their say and they largely kept it civil, aside from from a few idiots.

 

[MJS]

Situation getting tense in LA. After a standoff with the police, protesters are mobbing the W hotel on Hollywood Blvd

Yeah, I saw the animals in action this morning on the news. What I don't understand is....what does any of that solve? Some kid that most likely NONE of these *******s knew on a personal level, other than what they 'knew' of him from TV, gets killed, and it sparks them to riot. And that's solving what exactly?

I swear, some people are ****ing stupid!

 

[Carol]

Yeah, I saw the animals in action this morning on the news. What I don't understand is....what does any of that solve? Some kid that most likely NONE of these *******s knew on a personal level, other than what they 'knew' of him from TV, gets killed, and it sparks them to riot. And that's solving what exactly?

I swear, some people are ****ing stupid!

Exactly!

And a good lot of the protesters wanted nothing to do with it either. My cable went haywire last evening so I was watching a couple of live streamers that were uploaded from NYC and LA protesters as they walked with the crowd with their smartphones. There was a young lady in particular that was trying to get part of the crowd organized and was imploring everyone to not go the route of property damage. She was the only one that I saw on the streams that was actually bringing up the point that the police were trying to protect the protesters from harm.

There was a fair amount of scuttlebutt going around talking about how bean bag rounds can cause injuries, so can rubber bullets.....well, yeah, they can injure -- but neither were deployed until the whack jobs started throwing rocks or D cell batteries at the police!

 

[arnisador]

This is exactly what I've been saying:

With Zimmerman, the Scandal Is What’s Legal

Although the verdict in the Trayvon Martin trial disappointed many people and angered and outraged some, it’s hard to argue, under Florida law and considering Judge Debra Nelson’s instructions to the jury, that the jurors were wrong in finding Mr. Zimmerman not guilty.

Judge Nelson specified in her instructions, as Ta-Nehisi Coates pointed out, that if Mr. Zimmerman was not “engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force.”

And therein lies the problem. As Michael Kinsley said in another context, “the scandal is what’s legal.”

 

[ballen0351]

This is exactly what I've been saying:

With Zimmerman, the Scandal Is What’s Legal

Im not seeing the problem. If your attacked then you should be allowed to defend yourself. As long as you dont go around attacking people you dont need to fear stand your ground laws.

 

[arnisador]

Im not seeing the problem. If your attacked then you should be allowed to defend yourself.

If you harass someone to the point where he feels threatened then you no longer have 'clean hands'.

 

[ballen0351]

If you harass someone to the point where he feels threatened then you no longer have 'clean hands'.

whos being harrassed? But even if I were Harrassing you as long as im not a threat you have no right to attack me

 

[arnisador]

Would you advise self-defense students that if a man with a gun follows them around at night it's not threatening?

 

[ballen0351]

Would you advise self-defense students that if a man with a gun follows them around at night it's not threatening?

1st you assume you know the person has a gun. I carry a gun everywhere and nobody knows Im armed. 2nd If that were the situation and you do know a man with a gun is following you Id advise my students to use their Cell phone to call 911 or run to the nearest house with lights on and ask them to call. At no point ever would I tell a student or ANYONE to confront a known armed person unless it was a last resort.

 

[Steve]

whos being harrassed? But even if I were Harrassing you as long as im not a threat you have no right to attack me

If you're following me overtly in your vehicle and then on foot, in the dark, in the rain while talking on a cell phone, I'd feel a little harassed. Gun or not, let's be reasonable here and at least acknowledge that there is a side of the story that has not (and cannot) been told.

 

[ballen0351]

If you're following me overtly in your vehicle and then on foot, in the dark, in the rain while talking on a cell phone, I'd feel a little harassed. Gun or not, let's be reasonable here and at least acknowledge that there is a side of the story that has not (and cannot) been told.

But its not revelvent. I can follow you anywhere I want as close as I want as long as I have a legal right to be there. It gives you no excuse to attack me. When you start the physical confrontation you crossed the line.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I mentioned earlier that I thought Zimmerman would be in trouble in a civil suit. After looking at the Florida Stand Your Ground Law they have an immunity clause in there against civil suits. So now I doubt Zimmerman will be affected in a civil suit. He may still have to deal with a Federal Civil Rights case but even that is probably not going to happen.


Florida Stand Your Ground Law as explained here by attorneys: http://www.husseinandwebber.com/florida-stand-your-ground-statute.html

 

[Steve]

But its not revelvent. I can follow you anywhere I want as close as I want as long as I have a legal right to be there. It gives you no excuse to attack me. When you start the physical confrontation you crossed the line.

I thought we were talking about being harassed. If you're following me in the dark, in the rain, and making it clear that you're doing so, I'm going to likely feel threatened.

And, again, while I understand that Zimmerman has been acquitted of 2nd degree murder, can't we all acknowledge that there is a side of the story that cannot be told? We don't know for sure that Martin initiated the physical contact. We only know that Zimmerman alleges it and no one can refute his story beyond a reasonable doubt. Martin said, "Why are you following me?" Zimmerman replied, "What are you doing here?" And then the S hit the fan, one life is ended and another functionally destroyed.

In the end, it's all regrettable, and I pity Zimmerman. I think he made egregious errors of judgement, but I haven't seen any evidence that he is a killer who woke up itching to end a life.