George Zmmerman trial begins...

arnisador said:
Yes. Per the National Sheriff's Assoc., which sponsors the actual Neighborhood Watch program, they shouldn't follow or engage--just report.
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Following and engaging was a legal choice he made, whether or not it was the wisest choice.
 
Big Don said:
Where is there any evidence Zimmerman engaged Martin?
Getting jumped isn't engaging...
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin#Background_of_the_shooting

Zimmerman said he left his truck to find a street sign so he would be able to tell the police dispatcher where he was. He told investigators that he was not following Martin but was "just going in the same direction he was" to find an address, but admitted that he had also left his truck to try to see in which direction Martin had gone.[171] The altercation began, he said, when Martin suddenly appeared while Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle. He described Martin at different points in the interviews as appearing "out of nowhere," "from the darkness," and as "jump[ing] out of the bushes."[171][172] Zimmerman said that Martin asked, "You got a ****ing problem, homie?" Zimmerman replied no, then Martin said "You got a problem now" and punched Zimmerman.[175] As they struggled on the ground, Zimmerman on his back with Martin on top of him, Zimmerman yelled for help "probably 50 times." (See Background sounds of yelling for help in 9-1-1 calls) Martin told him to "Shut the **** up," as he hit him in the face and pounded his head on a concrete sidewalk.[172] When Zimmerman tried to move off the concrete, Martin saw his gun and said "You're going to die tonight mother****er!" Martin grabbed for the gun, but Zimmerman grabbed it first. He said after firing his weapon at Martin, he wasn't sure at first that he had hit him, so he got on top of him in order to subdue him.[171][171][172]Bystanders and police arrived shortly after Martin was shot.[176][177]
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If it happened like that then the shooting was justified but when TM is shouting "You got a ****ing problem, homie?" it clearly indicates that he felt threatened too. GM can be not guilty and still bear some of the blame.
 
Big Don said:
Where is there any evidence Zimmerman engaged Martin?
Getting jumped isn't engaging...
Click to expand...

How often are you overtly followed? Hasn't happened to me since high school, and I ended up in a fight with a guy I knew was a gang member.

In the dark, in the rain, if someone were obviously following you, you don't consider that engaged? I'm asking for clarity, because maybe we are using the term differently. I might be using it incorrectly.

So, in the interest of being clear, if you were following me, making it clear that you were following me, on the phone, in the dark, in the rain, in a place I'm not completely familiar with, I would feel as though you were engaging me. I would feel threatened.

That's what I mean by engaged, and no one disputes that Zimmerman did all of those things.

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Steve said:
How often are you overtly followed? Hasn't happened to me since high school, and I ended up in a fight with a guy I knew was a gang member.

In the dark, in the rain, if someone were obviously following you, you don't consider that engaged? I'm asking for clarity, because maybe we are using the term differently. I might be using it incorrectly.

So, in the interest of being clear, if you were following me, making it clear that you were following me, on the phone, in the dark, in the rain, in a place I'm not completely familiar with, I would feel as though you were engaging me. I would feel threatened.

That's what I mean by engaged, and no ken disputes that Zimmerman did all of those things.

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So if you felt threatened and made it with in 2 houses of your residence and the person following you turned around what would you do?
Id go home lock the door and call the police.
 
arnisador said:
If it happened like that then the shooting was justified but when TM is shouting "You got a ****ing problem, homie?" it clearly indicates that he felt threatened too. GM can be not guilty and still bear some of the blame.
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threatened?
seems to me more indicative of an attitude problem.

You know, running your mouth when you think you can intimidate the other person without repercussions....
 
ballen0351 said:
So if you felt threatened and made it with in 2 houses of your residence and the person following you turned around what would you do?
Id go home lock the door and call the police.
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I'd like to think I would have had better judgement. But that doesn't mean I'm not feeling nervous as hell.

At 17, not sure how I would have handled it, honestly. I went to school in a pretty rough area, and there were times that the smart thing to do was fight. I don't know what the 17 year old Steve would do, but its probably not the same thing I'd so now.

As the father of a 17 year old man child (6'2", 240 lbs) I know for sure that he is wise beyond his years one minute and a child with appalling judgement the next. I was the same, and tend to view all teenagers through this lens (right or wrong).


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granfire said:
threatened?
seems to me more indicative of an attitude problem.

You know, running your mouth when you think you can intimidate the other person without repercussions....
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Having an attitude isn't illegal, granfire. Certainly not a capital offense.


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Steve said:
I'd like to think I would have had better judgement. But that doesn't mean I'm not feeling nervous as hell.

At 17, not sure how I would have handled it, honestly. I went to school in a pretty rough area, and there were times that the smart thing to do was fight. I don't know what the 17 year old Steve would do, but its probably not the same thing I'd so now.

As the father of a 17 year old man child (6'2", 240 lbs) I know for sure that he is wise beyond his years one minute and a child with appalling judgement the next. I was the same, and tend to view all teenagers through this lens (right or wrong).


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Yes which is what makes Zimmermans story even more believeable knowing that 17 year old kids do stupid stuff. He lost it sucks but he brought it on himself. Its a sad situation but sometimes bad things happen. I just don't understand everyone that's defending Martins actions. I dont get the disconnect between the facts presented not just by Zimmermans side but Martins own GF an whats being said here. I guess if you ignore the facts and make up the story however you want then Sure Zimmerman was wrong.
 
ballen0351 said:
No but attacking someone is
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Ballen, we don't know that Martin attacked first. It is only fact that it cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman attacked first. You believe that Martin attacked first, but that doesn't make it fact. We don't know and have only heard one side of the story.


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ballen0351 said:
Yes which is what makes Zimmermans story even more believeable knowing that 17 year old kids do stupid stuff. He lost it sucks but he brought it on himself. Its a sad situation but sometimes bad things happen. I just don't understand everyone that's defending Martins actions. I dont get the disconnect between the facts presented not just by Zimmermans side but Martins own GF an whats being said here. I guess if you ignore the facts and make up the story however you want then Sure Zimmerman was wrong.
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If you would take a breath and read what people are actually writing, you would know that this isn't what is happening. You've got a filter on.

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But it does fit a pattern of behavior..Martin reportedly attacked a bus driver....
 
Tgace said:
But it does fit a pattern of behavior..Martin reportedly attacked a bus driver....
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And it may have happened. Not saying it didn't. Only saying that we don't know. Building an argument presuming that conjecture is fact is shaky and its causing misunderstandings in this thread.


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Steve said:
If you would take a breath and read what people are actually writing, you would know that this isn't what is happening. You've got a filter on.

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I dont need to take a breath im not upset. I read everything you have posted and your ignoring several of the facts that were presented. You either dont like them because they dont fit your version of what happened or for some reason think everyone involved n the case but Martins lawyers are lying
 
Steve said:
And it may have happened. Not saying it didn't. Only saying that we don't know. Building an argument presuming that conjecture is fact is shaky and its causing misunderstandings in this thread.


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So you think the school Lied when they suspended him?
 
Steve said:
And it may have happened. Not saying it didn't. Only saying that we don't know. Building an argument presuming that conjecture is fact is shaky and its causing misunderstandings in this thread.


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Is it that much different from presuming that Zimmerman is lying?
 
ballen0351 said:
I dont need to take a breath im not upset. I read everything you have posted and your ignoring several of the facts that were presented. You either dont like them because they dont fit your version of what happened or for some reason think everyone involved n the case but Martins lawyers are lying
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Yeah? Has to be one of those things, eh? You are so blind right now, you think I'm anti-Zimmerman.


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