George Zmmerman trial begins...

[Steve]

So you think the school Lied when they suspended him?

I was suspended in high school. I did drugs and did some bad things, too. I got into fights, and spent two years straight at summer school and night school so I could graduate on time. But I would like to think I turned out okay. You're a cynical dude. I wouldn't attack someone unless I felt I had no choice, and I am very glad I survived high school to enlist and eventually go to college. As I said, there's no doubt Martin could have done things differently. But that is does not exclude the possibility that Zimmerman could also have done things differently.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Steve]

Is it that much different from presuming that Zimmerman is lying?

Serious question, Tgace. Do you believe that's what I'm doing? If so, I sincerely apologize, because that isn't what I want to be doing.

I do believe that there are two sides to every story, and that its human nature to view a situation in the light most favorable to oneself. We have heard one side of the story.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[ballen0351]

I was suspended in high school. I did drugs and did some bad things, too. I got into fights, and spent two years straight at summer school and night school so I could graduate on time. But I would like to think I turned out okay. You're a cynical dude. I wouldn't attack someone unless I felt I had no choice, and I am very glad I survived high school to enlist and eventually go to college. As I said, there's no doubt Martin could have done things differently. But that is does not exclude the possibility that Zimmerman could also have done things differently.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

In your opinion what should Zimmerman have done?

 

[Steve]

In your opinion what should Zimmerman have done?

Well, that's a conversation I tried to have a while back. Jks started a new thread. Why don't you check it out. Your perspective as a cop would be very interesting.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[granfire]

Having an attitude isn't illegal, granfire. Certainly not a capital offense.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

you missed the point.

That is not behavior of somebody who is scared, but somebody who is spoiling for a fight (and probably assuming he'll be the victor because he's badass and/or the other guy backs down)

People don't get in your face when they think you can kick their behinds....

You know, the old MASH proverb: He who lives by the mouth gets punch in it....

 

[ballen0351]

threatened?
seems to me more indicative of an attitude problem.

You know, running your mouth when you think you can intimidate the other person without repercussions....

New thing going on around here. Large groups of teens walk around our downtown waterfront area and walk up to the people eating in the outdoor tables and grab your food and throw it in your lap. What do you do? 10 to 15 teens you cant fight them all by the time the cops get there the kids are gone. When we do catch them and arrest them nothing happens to them. This attitude I dont know if its a modern thing or if its always been like this but Its getting out of hand.

 

[crushing]

Ballen, we don't know that Martin attacked first. It is only fact that it cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman attacked first. You believe that Martin attacked first, but that doesn't make it fact. We don't know and have only heard one side of the story.

Actually, we have heard a few different sides. Zimmerman's, Martin's girlfriend's, the eyewitness, etc., and the side of the story the forensic evidence tells.

It's too bad that the surveillance video that the police claimed caught the whole incident was just a ruse during the interrogation of Zimmerman (upon hearing of the existence of such a video, GZ's immediate response was "Thank God.") It would have been nice to have the story such a video would tell too, but it likely still wouldn't have been enough.

 

[MJS]

Yes. Per the National Sheriff's Assoc., which sponsors the actual Neighborhood Watch program, they shouldn't follow or engage--just report.

I have to wonder though...how many neighborhoods that have signs that mention 'neighborhood watch' actually have someone like a GZ, patrolling the area, either on foot or in a car? I think in the majority of the cases, it's simply everyone in the neighborhood just looking after each other.

Personally, I'd rather see the local PD be in charge of the NW, if in fact, someone is going to actually be patrolling in a car, on foot, with a weapon, etc.

 

[MJS]

If it happened like that then the shooting was justified but when TM is shouting "You got a ****ing problem, homie?" it clearly indicates that he felt threatened too. GM can be not guilty and still bear some of the blame.

I'd be willing to bet that TM is the kind of kid who'd say that even if you glanced at him while you passed by on the street.

 

[MJS]

In the other thread, I asked a question that was probably missed, but I'd like some clarification, as I think it may clear some things up. On the matter of following someone. Its been said that as long as you have a right to be there, you can follow someone. When does it become stalking or harassing behavior?

If I'm in the local mall, and I see an attractive girl, I can technically follow her around the entire mall, into any store, etc. At what point can she complain, accuse me of stalking or harassing?

And for the record, I'm using myself as an example. No, I don't follow women around the mall....other than my wife, as I'm the designated bag carrier.

 

[ballen0351]

In the other thread, I asked a question that was probably missed, but I'd like some clarification, as I think it may clear some things up. On the matter of following someone. Its been said that as long as you have a right to be there, you can follow someone. When does it become stalking or harassing behavior?

If I'm in the local mall, and I see an attractive girl, I can technically follow her around the entire mall, into any store, etc. At what point can she complain, accuse me of stalking or harassing?

And for the record, I'm using myself as an example. No, I don't follow women around the mall....other than my wife, as I'm the designated bag carrier.

Every state is different but here for a stalking charge it must be a continuing course of conduct. Meaning it can't be a one time thing. So yes you can follow the girl around the mall. Its also not a crime until you tell the person to stop. Even then however its not a crime as long as your allowed to be where you are unless there is some type of protective order in place. Also just following isn't enough the victim must be in fear of serious injury or death. The suspect must show a desire to injure kill or rape the victim just following someone isn't enough to show an intent .

The key to all of it is a continuing course of conduct.

 

[ballen0351]

The harassment laws here are slightly different. It can be a single event but it is not a crime until the victim tells the suspect to stop. But again just following someone isn't enough the victim must be able to show a reason they are harassed. Also there is a political exception so if your expressing a political belief you can't be charged with harassment

 

[Steve]

you missed the point.

That is not behavior of somebody who is scared, but somebody who is spoiling for a fight (and probably assuming he'll be the victor because he's badass and/or the other guy backs down)

People don't get in your face when they think you can kick their behinds....

You know, the old MASH proverb: He who lives by the mouth gets punch in it....

That's a whole lot of assumption, granfire. This post reads to me like you have specific, personal history in mind and you're overlaying it onto this situation.

 

[arnisador]

threatened?
seems to me more indicative of an attitude problem.

You know, running your mouth when you think you can intimidate the other person without repercussions....

It seems to me he was feeling intimidated himself. Going to his house and staying there would've been best but if he thought this had happened before and would again he may have felt confronting it at some point was best. (It wasn't, obviously.) Not liking to be followed as though you're a criminal right in your own neighborhood isn't an attitude problem. He had as much right to be there as GZ.

 

[arnisador]

Yes which is what makes Zimmermans story even more believeable knowing that 17 year old kids do stupid stuff. He lost it sucks but he brought it on himself. Its a sad situation but sometimes bad things happen. I just don't understand everyone that's defending Martins actions.

I'm not defending his actions--I'm saying that there's reason to understand why he may have felt driven to do what he did. If he threw the first punch, as seems most likely, then he was in the wrong. But that doesn't mean he's all in the wrong and GZ was a saint--the hero of his community. It isn't that simple, Javert.

 

[arnisador]

I dont need to take a breath im not upset. I read everything you have posted and your ignoring several of the facts that were presented. You either dont like them because they dont fit your version of what happened or for some reason think everyone involved n the case but Martins lawyers are lying

You don't have to think people are lying to recognize that two people can see the same event very differently. As my arnis instructor likes to say, there's three sides to every story--yours, mine, and the truth. That GZ was found not guilty indicates only that the prosecutor's case wasn't proven. I agree it's most likely that TM threw the first blow--of course we don't know if there might've been a shoving match first, but suppose not--and that GZ was entitled to defend himself then. I agree with the verdict for both the murder and manslaughter charges (though I wonder if a smarter prosecutor could've made the lower charge stick) but I think GZ bears some blame for instigating the fight. In another state he'd lose the civil suit, I'd wager.

 

[arnisador]

Is it that much different from presuming that Zimmerman is lying?

He was on trial for murder. I would expect him to describe events in the most favorable light for himself. And we couldn't hear the other side, but we can imagine what it's like to be a 17 y.o. kid being followed by an adult for no reason.

 

[arnisador]

In your opinion what should Zimmerman have done?

Called the police. Waited and watched. It looks like he would've seen TM go into his own home and stay there.

 

[arnisador]

It's too bad that the surveillance video that the police claimed caught the whole incident was just a ruse during the interrogation of Zimmerman

I know the police are allowed to lie to you and I am also not so crazy about that.

 

[Steve]

It seems to me he was feeling intimidated himself. Going to his house and staying there would've been best but if he thought this had happened before and would again he may have felt confronting it at some point was best. (It wasn't, obviously.) Not liking to be followed as though you're a criminal right in your own neighborhood isn't an attitude problem. He had as much right to be there as GZ.

Carol brought out a great point in another thread. If you're being followed and believe that there is ill intent, showing the "bad guy" where you live might not be a great idea. Not to say that Martin was thinking this rationally, but there are legitimate reasons that just going home isn't necessarily the best idea.