Fundamental pillars of self-defense?

[Brian King]

A fighter can have all the skills in the world, but no heart. When pressed enough, the fighter will break.
A fighter can have tremendous heart, but no skill. Having heart will help - it will keep you going, probably to the hospital where you might be admired for taking a beating for as long as you did. But a decently skilled person with heart - tough to beat.

I don't know if some folks are born with it, if it just comes naturally to them, yeah, maybe. But it can be developed through hard work and pushing oneself through limitations, constantly. "Constantly" is key - at least in the context of "I pushed myself once, boy, was I tired". Sammy Davis Jr once described what a professional was. He said, "A professional is someone who does a good job even when he doesn't feel like it." I think that touches upon it, obviously in a much softer context, but I think the basic idea is similar.

I think it's as much phycological as it is physical. (and not physiological at all) It can be developed. But it takes time.
For instance - going to class is easy when you feel like going to class. Not going is so much easier when you don't feel like going, or when you're tired, depressed, busy, have little time, have other things on your mind etc. I think it's easy, (fun even) to spar with someone your used to and comfortable with. It's another thing entirely to spar with someone you're not comfortable with. And I don't mean someone necessarilly more skilled than you, I mean the ones you just don't like sparring with for whatever reason. But guess what? You ain't going to be comfortable defending yourself, either, against anybody. Defending yourself is not a comfortable thing, no matter how good you are, or how good you think you are. And that has nothing to do with your skill level and everything to do with heart.

Say you do pushups as part of your training (be it in the arts or whatever), if the goal was to do as many as you could - it's not the number that counts, it's when you decide you've done them all. If I dropped fifty K on the floor in front of you, could you have done one more? If a loved ones health depended on you doing one more, could you have done one more? You would have to honestly answer "no" if you actually were doing as many as you could. Things like this, pushing your limits consistantly in fitness or anything else (consistantly being key) develops your "heart", your will, your grit, your resolve, your mettle, your pluck, your spirit.

Some will say that has nothing to do with defending yourself sucessfully. I say it has everything to do with defending yourself sucessfully. In fact, it has everything to do with with everything IMO.

Wonderful post Buka, thank you for sharing.
Some wisdom in creating heart...although might it better be described as discovering heart?
Perhaps worthy of a thread of its own merit this conversation of heart.
You have obviously given much consideration to the question of what is heart and how to develop it thru proper training. Then, as with all coins, there is the other side of the question. If heart can be developed and strengthened, can it also be weakened and destroyed?

In Systema some instructors have used the imagery of 'crack the egg shell but do not break the egg' while instructing and often spend a considerable amount of time working on recovering and cleansing with their students.

Buka (and others feel free in chiming in) you have seen heart strengthened and discovered in martial arts students thru the years. Have you also seen it weakened and lost? If so, are there cautions as well as the inspirations you posted above? Perhaps a kind of negative pillar?

I am really enjoying your insights and shared memories. Thanks again
Regards
Brian King

 

[Brian King]

Again, I take no responsibility for someone not smart enough to tap out when they're caught in an lock in a competition. Applying joint/arm/leg/shoulder locks that can break people is well within the rules of the game.

Thank you for your posting. You keyed 'no' in bold, so I understand that you feel you have no responsibility for some one not 'smart' enough to tap. I also understand that some activities that people chose to engage in can result in injuries and even death and that is a choice that needs to be made with eyes open. The chance of injury/death is obviously serious for the one being maimed but also I think it could also be an issue for the one doing the maiming? People go to training to learn and to practice. All have lives outside the training hall, work, family and hobbies other than martial arts, a serious injury interferes with all such aspects, no?

Our fellow students that we train with are humans, they have lives that can be dramatically effected with each interaction, either positively or negatively. Even minor injuries can easily cause hardships, a loss of employment, hardships at home, physical and psychological damage. Being 'not smart enough' to tap seems to me an issue of instruction and class discipline perhaps, but, not necessarily the fault of the student? Accidental injuries happen but purposeful injuries I think are rarer?

Hanzou, as someone who has purposely seriously injured multiple training partners in their past trainings and seemingly without any guilt or remorse, do you have any advice for the martial arts practitioner who is perhaps considering riskier harder training on how to psychologically prepare to purposely injure their training partner and deal with any issues that might possibly come about? The military has done much work on how to condition soldiers to kill and maim during wartime operations, I am wondering how you have prepared yourself to do the same during competitions and training mat times.

Thank you
Regards
Brian King

 

[Brian King]

Close enough! Some anecdotes:

After I left Japan, I went to Europe (eventually) and was accosted in Greece-it turned out to be a sad misunderstanding-they thought I was someone else, and attacked me, with what they thought of as justification, having mistaken me for the scumbag who disrespected them……I defended myself successfully, but I hadn’t practiced good situational awareness at all: I was being a tourist, and was, just as many people are, attacked from nowhere, with no prelude, interview or “monkey dance…”

Then I got mugged in Spain. This time, they tried to snatch my duffel and camera….I resisted, successfully, but I just about never saw them coming-and, these days, I’d have let them have it: there was nothing in that duffel worth dying for, nor was the camera…..

I have heard this described as "being in Disney Land" (either Rory Millar or perhaps Kris Wilder perhaps?) and I like that description. If we are honest with ourselves there are many times when we can find ourselves in this mental condition. Out of the now or too much in the now LOL. I think that perhaps the trick is knowing when we are in this Disney Land condition, acknowledge it, and make it on purpose.

Months later-months that were occupied with college, and being a bouncer, and hanging around with a motorcycle club, and engaging in other youthful foolishness, I had my little incident on the subway……I actually was pretty aware, considering the lateness of the hour, and how I’d spent the hours preceding it, but I really shouldn’t have been on that particular platform, at that particular hour, dressed as I was and wearing a Rolex, of all things-I may as well have had “vic” tattooed on my forehead…….even if I wasn’t one……(it’s worth pointing out here, that I can tell all of this story to a roomful of people, and say that I shouldn’t have been waiting to board the Brooklyn IRT at that hour, dressed as I was, and they’ll all nod their heads, but tell a woman that if she goes out in a short skirt, high-heels and a “tear here for boobs” top-that she’s inviting trouble, and it’s just not politically correct….oh well.)

So, situational awareness is something I’ve obviously had to work on: mom called me an ‘absent minded professor” for most of my childhood, and there’s some truth to it. While it can be considered the first foundational pillar of self defense: knowing where you are, who the people involved are, fitting in and being unobtrusive-not standing out as a target., avoiding places where trouble could happen…these should mostly be common sense.

Experience is what we get 30 seconds after we need it LOL if we are lucky.

View attachment 19326

Common sense is so rare that we now have to teach it and take classes for it...sigh

Of course, I say that now, as a 55 year old man-not as a teen or twenty-something who always wanted to be in the middle of “the action.” That all ended when I got married and had children of my own-priorities and the way you view the world will change….I say this because on another thread, people laughed off the exploits of Renzo Gracie-a man who is old enough (44?) and trained enough to behave better than he has….these are just some things to think on…I’ll talk about how I trained my situational awareness and observational skills, and how I train others, but maybe in a separate post…

I look forward to reading that future post, sir.


What I want to talk about first, though, are the effects of adrenalin on the human body and perception, and methods for training for, controlling and channeling adrenalization and fear.

GREAT topics, always.

What happens when we’re startled, frightened or under stress? A part of the brain-the hypothalamus-initiates the secretion of stress hormones: cortisol, noradrenaline, and adrenaline. This is hard wired into us, and prepares us to face perceived danger: to either fight it, or flee from it-fight or flight.It’s hard-wired into us. The rest of our brain, the thinking part, can sometimes make the hypothalamus think we need to do these things, when we don’t: got a big, important exam coming up? Your body could release those stress hormones, thinking you have to face down a sabre-toothed tiger or something….this can work to our advantage, as I’ll explain. Briefly though, if “the thinking part” can make the hypothalamus release these hormones, then we can think our way into releasing these hormones. What do they do?

Well, when these hormones are released, our respiratory and heart rates increase. Blood is shunted away from our digestive tract and directed into our muscles and limbs-extra energy to fight or run. Our pupils dilate, and our sight sharpens (though this effect also can lead to tunnel vision) Our impulses-our reflexes-can quicken. Our perception of pain diminishes.

Those can be the plusses, if we need them to run or fight, but they can also be liabilities-especially if we’re not used to them, or don’t know how to deal with them.

Funny how liabilities can often become positives and positives can become liabilities depending on experience and perceptions.

The first way that I train dealing with being adrenalized is to deliberately simulate it as much as I can-once people have some semblance of technical ability with a self-defense movement or response, I’ll have them execute it right at the aerobic threshold, repeatedly, and over their anaerobic threshold eventually. While I’m a big fan of aerobic training and fitness, and , basically, training like a boxer, self-defense is actually an aneaerobic activity-it’s a short burst, not a long-haul. By actually performing with a high heart rate and high-and generally insufficient-respiratory rate, we are simulating effects of adrenalization while executing movement.

I have had the privilege of working and training with some 'cool customers'. Folks that do not seem to get excited or upset no matter the action around them. These are not cold people or psychotics, but they have become super aware of their own nervous systems and can feel when it is becoming aroused and once aware, they can nearly instantly (to me it seems, to them it takes too long...it is all relative, the difference between a finch and a hawk) return to a calm normal state. Their nervous systems work the same, but where I and most people have huge spikes and valleys like an emotional roller coaster as our nervous system becomes aroused and depressed (sympathetic and parasympathetic) since they can feel that very first moment due to their sensitivity and their ability to return to a normal state, where many have spikes and valleys they have more of straight line with just little bumps.

Additionally, movements-already gross rather than fine responses-become even grosser, and focusing on efficacy-on making the movement work-becomes part of the focus: I’m not looking for the perfect execution of a throw or strike in terms of form-I’m looking for the opponent to wind up on the floor: self defense generally requires gross rather than fine motor control, in part because fine motor control goes out the window with adrenaline, and because simpler is….well, simpler. So, at this stage and with this type of training, we’re simulating working with the negative effects of adrenalization simply by operating with increased respiration and heart rate……

….and what you’ll often hear me saying to the panting, gasping tori, after the tenth or eleventh repetition is ”Control your breathing!-which I’ve heard lots of instructors say over the years, and is sometimes received as a meaningless instruction (If I could control my breathing, do you think I’d be gasping like this??!!, they must be thinking….) Suffice to say, breath control is another element of dealing with adrenalization, as well as staying relaxed enough to do movements under stress-with me, it’s not an order, but a reminder, as my students and I spend a fair amount of time on breath control exercises-some of which are familiar to Asian martial arts practitioners, and some of which might be familiar to Systema practitioners like you, Brian-since I got them from one of my teachers, Mr. Joseph Greenstein, a famous vaudeville strongman known as the Mighty Atom, who trained under a Russian strongman…at least, I’ve often wondered if they’d be similar…..

Looking forward to that conversation, sir. I am always amazed at how the principles I have learned while training in Systema get repeated and reenforced from totally unexpected and unrelated sources.

In any case, I think some sort of breath control is essential to dealing with and channeling adrenalization. There are lots of theories, exercises and disciplines around this, including meditation, and it’s been my observation that if followed diligently, they’re all kind of get you there, so I’m not going to get too detailed about how I do it: breath control, though, I think is key.

Agree totally. I often describe breathing as a bridge between all of our bodies systems. A bridge with on-ramps and exits that allow us to access and 'control' the ride.

There are other factors to that I use in developing mindset that I'll post about separately, but breath control and stress training are the physical starting point.



My granddad, who trained hunting dogs, had to train them to accept gunshots without starting, and for a fired shot to mean it was time to get to work. The flinch response in humans serves a protective purpose-to protect the eyes and ward off a threat. It’s a reflex-meaning we rreally can’t control it, and probably shouldn’t try to, but we can “reprogram,” or re-purpose it.. There are some differing opinions as to which direction this should take: Rory Miller and Tony Blauer basically both favor retraining it towards aggression, sometimes with a forward movement: I look to kata, and what’s natural, and ask, what’s wrong with moving back and making a warding motion, especially if it’s the body’s natural response already?

Otherwise, we don’t differ much: the way to retrain a reflex is, essentially, Pavlovian, with a negative feedback for undesired responses, and positive feedback for desired responses, until desired responses are all that’s occurred. That’s really all I’m going to say about that, except to remind people of the many times I’ve said that I couldn’t train children the way I was trained as a child without some parent wanting to sue me or put me in jail……and how I don’t train children, yet, and won’t really use the methods that I use for retraining the flinch reflex with children when I start to……..

Thank you for posting Elder999 and I am looking forward to your further postings. I hope you do not mind my posting within the quote above. I am still learning the new board and system of posting.

I read that you are traveling. Safe flights and journey
Regards
Brian King

 

[drop bear]

Thank you for your posting. You keyed 'no' in bold, so I understand that you feel you have no responsibility for some one not 'smart' enough to tap. I also understand that some activities that people chose to engage in can result in injuries and even death and that is a choice that needs to be made with eyes open. The chance of injury/death is obviously serious for the one being maimed but also I think it could also be an issue for the one doing the maiming? People go to training to learn and to practice. All have lives outside the training hall, work, family and hobbies other than martial arts, a serious injury interferes with all such aspects, no?

Our fellow students that we train with are humans, they have lives that can be dramatically effected with each interaction, either positively or negatively. Even minor injuries can easily cause hardships, a loss of employment, hardships at home, physical and psychological damage. Being 'not smart enough' to tap seems to me an issue of instruction and class discipline perhaps, but, not necessarily the fault of the student? Accidental injuries happen but purposeful injuries I think are rarer?

Hanzou, as someone who has purposely seriously injured multiple training partners in their past trainings and seemingly without any guilt or remorse, do you have any advice for the martial arts practitioner who is perhaps considering riskier harder training on how to psychologically prepare to purposely injure their training partner and deal with any issues that might possibly come about? The military has done much work on how to condition soldiers to kill and maim during wartime operations, I am wondering how you have prepared yourself to do the same during competitions and training mat times.

Thank you
Regards
Brian King

By the way. Regarding this too dumb to tap. Generally you give them a bit of time to do it. And it becomes their choice to staunch it or not.

 

[Brian King]

Thanks drop bear.
Sometimes people freeze, the pain perhaps, stuck in the OODA loop, or some other reason. For police work (military and civilian) training often consists of giving verbal cues to help 'guide' the interaction. In the case of too dumb to tap...do you ever ask out loud if they are going to tap or some other verbal cue?

Thanks for posting
Brian King

 

[BMhadoken]

A teacher who knowingly and willingly breaks, tears or dislocates my arm in training will not be teaching me again. That, to me, is an unforgivable betrayal of the student/teacher relationship.

 

[Buka]

Buka (and others feel free in chiming in) you have seen heart strengthened and discovered in martial arts students thru the years. Have you also seen it weakened and lost? If so, are there cautions as well as the inspirations you posted above? Perhaps a kind of negative pillar?

That's one heck of a question, Brian. Yes, I have seen it weakened and lost. (so sad) Let me think on this some more. I'm hoping I won't remember any more than the couple that have come to mind.

 

[drop bear]

Thanks drop bear.
Sometimes people freeze, the pain perhaps, stuck in the OODA loop, or some other reason. For police work (military and civilian) training often consists of giving verbal cues to help 'guide' the interaction. In the case of too dumb to tap...do you ever ask out loud if they are going to tap or some other verbal cue?

Thanks for posting
Brian King

Sometimes. I have a sub that ties up both arms and a foot tap is too slow generally.

But I also roll with some competitive guys who want to push that to get the escape. They just refuse to tap.

For me I will hand out the punish in striking rather than wrestling in the gym. Because that is where a one speed guy could hurt me unduly. And that took me a little while to get the mentality for that.

So we would go in for a light spar and one speed loads up and starts throwing bombs. And instead of trying to keep a light pace and be banged around. I will turn it up and put the guy down if I have to.

 

[drop bear]

Just on a safety aspect. We put guys in the ring. And I cant always spar them and ease of if they are in trouble. At some stage this guy will have to face someone who may want to rip his head off. And he has to get used to that at a moderate level at least before he faces it for real or he really is going to get hurt.

 

[BMhadoken]

Just on a safety aspect. We put guys in the ring. And I cant always spar them and ease of if they are in trouble. At some stage this guy will have to face someone who may want to rip his head off. And he has to get used to that at a moderate level at least before he faces it for real or he really is going to get hurt.

Sure, to actually condition someone to fight when their life's on the line you need to go hard. Simple pain is a useful tool if used appropriately. Causing someone real injury has absolutely no place in a training hall.

If I'm letting you teach me, im putting my safety in your ostensibly more skilled hands in order to learn from you. If you cause me actual life-affecting injury, the only thing you've taught me is that I can't trust you.

"You" in the general sense, not you specifically.

 

[drop bear]

Sure, to actually condition someone to fight when their life's on the line you need to go hard. Simple pain is a useful tool if used appropriately. Causing someone real injury has absolutely no place in a training hall.

If I'm letting you teach me, im putting my safety in your ostensibly more skilled hands in order to learn from you. If you cause me actual life-affecting injury, the only thing you've taught me is that I can't trust you.

"You" in the general sense, not you specifically.

Fighting has risk. Fight training has risk. It is crap that people get injured. But it is not competition knitting either.

Safety is important but you cant send someone into a fight unless they have trained at a fight intensity.

It is generally accepted that it is brought to a pretty fine line. Some of the onus is on the guy performing the attack. But there is also responsibility on the guy receiving to be able to protect himself. And to tap when he is in trouble.

Or you quite simply can't go hard.

 

[Brian King]

Just on a safety aspect. We put guys in the ring. And I cant always spar them and ease of if they are in trouble. At some stage this guy will have to face someone who may want to rip his head off. And he has to get used to that at a moderate level at least before he faces it for real or he really is going to get hurt.

Thanks drop bear. I think I would put those that are competing in the ring (especially professionally) in the same mental category as first responders and other action professionals? The situations that they willingly insert themselves into call for a bit of different outlook of training than basic self-defense type of training with a different intensity, focus, and danger level. A good training partner and/or instructor should know how to 'up the ante' in the training and just as importantly when to. I would also think that being aware of the all the different dangers (not merely the physical) of this type of training and how to cope with them should also be focused on by the training partners and instructors? A professional fighter training for a tournament that suffers an injury might not be able to make the fight, or making the fight might now have a weakness that a good opponent might become aware of, and then take advantage of. First responders, soldiers, and other action professions often have to go to work right after training, having to do so while being injured prior to the job can put them and the public into higher risks. Professionals have to be able to keep the training going with a focus, intensity, and willingness to approach the edge, yet with the idea and goal of sustainability. A training injury could easily end their professional career or more.

Thanks for taking the time to post drop bear.
Regards
Brian King

 

[drop bear]

Thanks drop bear. I think I would put those that are competing in the ring (especially professionally) in the same mental category as first responders and other action professionals? The situations that they willingly insert themselves into call for a bit of different outlook of training than basic self-defense type of training with a different intensity, focus, and danger level. A good training partner and/or instructor should know how to 'up the ante' in the training and just as importantly when to. I would also think that being aware of the all the different dangers (not merely the physical) of this type of training and how to cope with them should also be focused on by the training partners and instructors? A professional fighter training for a tournament that suffers an injury might not be able to make the fight, or making the fight might now have a weakness that a good opponent might become aware of, and then take advantage of. First responders, soldiers, and other action professions often have to go to work right after training, having to do so while being injured prior to the job can put them and the public into higher risks. Professionals have to be able to keep the training going with a focus, intensity, and willingness to approach the edge, yet with the idea and goal of sustainability. A training injury could easily end their professional career or more.

Thanks for taking the time to post drop bear.
Regards
Brian King

Yeah. I saw a thing on the sas selection and a few of them got injured out.

 

[jks9199]

The focus-assumption is entirely on the 'stranger in an alley/street/parking lot'.

Why?

It's easier to address, and less frightening than admitting that many times, our greatest threat is that which is closest to us, and supposed to be safe...

 

[Brian King]

@elder999, Re the question that @Brian King asked about a way to help an average Jane to develop the mindset that violence is a tool that can be used.. I would want to suggest that there is a neurological difference between how the male and female body deploy adrenaline and I have found to put it to its briefest that women are more inclined to PROTECT where men might be more amenable to retaliation with violence and why that might be of use here is I wonder perhaps to encourage that female SD student to view her use of physical force not for harm -even though that is the effect - and but for SELF-PROTECTION..

I know this might sound in your ears like a no brainer and but in my experience there is some times a disconnect between the use of physical means and the association of this means with her own preservation.. I do not know about other women on the board.. every one is different and but for me it is some thing I still wrestle with though it is mitigated by using the art I use as it was conceived which has through the years left me thoroughly grounded in the notion that when I have to use it.. it is not about damaging him (usually is a him sorry) instead it is about protecting ME.. For me THIS is the shift in mindset needed.. If it seem like common sense like wth would she NOT think like that? well I am only offering just anecdote from talking with friends and from assisting women survivors in a professional capacity.. I do not train others SD so I cannot comment if that would even make any difference.. Jx

Great post Jenna, thanks for taking the time to share. It is not very PC to say, but (whispering) male and females are different. The neurological differences between students are many, even the chemicals (not only adrenaline is dumped into the blood stream) and amounts of each vary between students. The events that trigger the 'dump' can vary based on the person being triggered. Gender, culture, past experiences, training, age, health, and many other variables including perception and views of violence all interact to create the chemical and emotional biological roller coaster ride that exposure to and use of violence can engineer. One difference that should perhaps also be noticed is the difference between students on length of time it takes for the chemicals to dissipate. Gender also has a role in that I believe.

I like your point about making a distinction between protecting self rather than harming others. I think that besides helping to set boundaries it helps to give one 'permission' to harm. It is of more interest to me currently to study by what means people use to give themselves that permission than by what means they deploy to actually cause the 'harm'. Teaching someone the eye gouge is FAR different than giving them the tools to actually do it, if that makes sense? Have you read either of the books "On Killing" and the book "On Combat" by Lt. Col. Grossman? Interesting reads that I have read thru more than once and each time gained some insight.

So perhaps a pillar might be something along the lines of, self defense training should help the student discover and develop a means to access the mindset of preservation and protection rather than the mindset of reaction and retribution?

Thanks for all of your insights Jenna and your honesty
Regards
Brian King

 

[Brian King]

Most human beings actually are naturally disinclined to use violence against their fellow-human beings, ample evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.As drop bear mentioned, the armed services use a pretty crude method of overcoming this natural disinclination: they typically dehumanize "the enemy," so it becomes "ok" to kill them. Human beings are fairly capable of making the same decision about the "other," relegating them to non-human status, especially where self-protection/preservation/defense and the defense of others makes violence necessary......

I've posted about my "relationship" with bears elsewhere, and one of the mottos of my dojo is "Like a bear protecting her cubs." The bear is an omnivore that is generally bashful, and generally doesn't resort to violence towards threats-if you see a bear in the woods, it will usually run away. Get near a mother and her cub, though......

Most people have at least a little she-bear in them. Mindset is about accessing that at will,

Thanks for posting Elder999.
i do not often disagree with you so finding a disagreement I have to post LOL. I disagree that the armed services use a "pretty crude method " of overcoming the disinclination of killing. The dehumanizing aspect is not so often used anymore in the US forces. The consequences of this type of conditioning do not work well with the type of conflicts our service members often are called to face. The military is always learning and has thousands of years of trying this and that in getting the rate of fire percentages up. The strategies and tactics now used help tremendously in getting the percentage higher. Disbursement of responsibility, distance from the kill, machinery between the kill and the killer, as examples. Also acknowledged and used is giving the enemy 'honor and recognition' so that by elevating the enemy it elevates the act of killing them. The type of targets used, the type of practice, the drilling have all changed. The difference in training can be seen in a bunch of modern conflicts, the British in the Falklands vs the Argentinians. the two armies trained differently and the rate of fire differences are dramatic, the U.S. vs the Iraqi army showed equal disparity.

Just as many of the better more advanced militaries are moving away from 'dehumanizing the enemy-other' much of the thinking in self defense training is also migrating from the dehumanizing the 'attacker' type of mindset. I do not know if the competition fight games are also moving from it. You see a lot of bad mouthing and trash talking prior to the 'fight', which of course helps to belittle and dehumanize the opponent giving the trash talker emotional permission and ammunition to do 'battle'.

I do like the use of she-bearisms type of visual accessing to help the student get an understanding of when violence might be justified. Many of the worlds cultures use animal action and behavior to help justify human interpersonal violence. It is interesting. Thank you again.

Regards
Brian King

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Yet, Brian believe it or not the members in the military do "other" their opponents. I regularly have students in country some where and even they would admit that "othering" is common and works effectively to dehumanize the opponents.

 

[Hanzou]

Thank you for your posting. You keyed 'no' in bold, so I understand that you feel you have no responsibility for some one not 'smart' enough to tap. I also understand that some activities that people chose to engage in can result in injuries and even death and that is a choice that needs to be made with eyes open. The chance of injury/death is obviously serious for the one being maimed but also I think it could also be an issue for the one doing the maiming? People go to training to learn and to practice. All have lives outside the training hall, work, family and hobbies other than martial arts, a serious injury interferes with all such aspects, no?

Our fellow students that we train with are humans, they have lives that can be dramatically effected with each interaction, either positively or negatively. Even minor injuries can easily cause hardships, a loss of employment, hardships at home, physical and psychological damage. Being 'not smart enough' to tap seems to me an issue of instruction and class discipline perhaps, but, not necessarily the fault of the student? Accidental injuries happen but purposeful injuries I think are rarer?

Hanzou, as someone who has purposely seriously injured multiple training partners in their past trainings and seemingly without any guilt or remorse, do you have any advice for the martial arts practitioner who is perhaps considering riskier harder training on how to psychologically prepare to purposely injure their training partner and deal with any issues that might possibly come about? The military has done much work on how to condition soldiers to kill and maim during wartime operations, I am wondering how you have prepared yourself to do the same during competitions and training mat times.

Thank you
Regards
Brian King

Yeah, for starters, I've never purposely injured a training partner. Let's stop that nonsense right there.

I've accidentally injured training partners or opponents too stubborn, stupid, or proud to submit to a submission. There's a difference there, and its a difference I've highlighted several times. Heck, I've highlighted that difference in the very post you quoted, so its baffling to me that you would still believe that I purposely injured training partners.

If you enter a training hall, or a competition with the mindset that you're invincible, or that people can't submit you, then you have a pretty high chance of being injured. If you enter a training hall or a competition with the mindset of a humble learner, and that we're fellow journeymen on a path towards becoming better, you have a lower chance of being injured. It's as simple as that.

 

[Brian King]

I must nitpick on this point, and argue that both men and women are equally disposed toward vengeful or vindictive behavior. As evidence I submit every single one of my ex-girlfriends. Seriously though, It's actually been my own experience that my generation of women will become physically violent with a man more quickly than a man will with other men, often seemingly based on the assumption that as a woman they're immune to retaliation. Beyond that, it's been said and I would agree that women in general are put under more pressure not to act out, fight or make a scene, and it can get them in trouble when danger comes at them with more force than they're willing to match.

Great post BMhadoken. I think that in addition to the "what are you going to do, shoot us?"* type of assumption of protection from violence based on such things as gender, cooperation, cultural expectations, there is also a lack of understanding what constitutes violence by many "victims". In many of the cases you are writing about I would be willing to bet that if interviewed the women would deny that they were violent at all. You can see this everyday on the road with road rage. When stationed in Germany as a soldier I would see now and then a German citizen getting into a heated 'discussion' with a GI. The German would get with-in inches of the GI, both yelling back and forth (monkey dance) and almost invariably the German would use his finger to point at the face of the GI to make some 'point' or another. It was never a good idea as the GI would then punch the German and feel very justified in doing so. Both were involved but both had different cultural expectations of the differences between argument and fight.

Thanks for bringing the 'immunity from retaliation" into the conversation. An important aspect of training I think would be learning to recognize violent actions, both in others and in ourselves, and to react according to the current situation rather than expectations.

*what are you going to do, shoot us" quote were the last spoken words of Nicole duFresne who was murdered in Manhattan. Nicole duFresne - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Regards
Brian King

 

[Dirty Dog]

Again, I take no responsibility for someone not smart enough to tap out when they're caught in an lock in a competition. Applying joint/arm/leg/shoulder locks that can break people is well within the rules of the game.

My oh my, aren't we the heartless, conscienceless bastard?
Injuries happen, certainly, but I think most of us accept a degree of responsibility for the safety of our training partners, as well as feeling regret when there are injuries.