Fun thread - if I were to do my kata in your style, how would it look?

[skribs]

My art is Taekwondo. Our forms are done as snapshots of technique: rigid stances, distinct chambers, explosive power from one move to another (in most cases). Each technique should be crisp and clear, with no wasted movement. Between each technique or combination there should be a brief pause; a snapshot of the technique that you can demonstrate. Almost like a living picture. Here is an example of one of the forms being done: Taegeuk #5.

I've been watching Youtube videos lately of guitarists who will take a riff, and play that riff in the style of 20 other bands. For example, they will take the main riff for AC/DC's Back-in-Black and keep the melody, but also throw in the style of other bands like Metallica or Korn. This got me thinking...

What about doing a Taekwondo form in 20 different styles?

How do your kata compare to something like this? If I were to adapt a Taekwondo form (not necessarily the one in the video) to your style, what sort of changes would I make to it?

It could be serious changes, or it could just be changes that have fun with it. What do you got?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

what sort of changes would I make to it?

You can put on a

- square wheel that rotate 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, and still 1, 2, 3, 4, ...
- round wheel that rotate smoothly.

Many MA systems combine the end of your previous move with the beginning of your next move. This way, all your moves are connected and there is no break in between. For example, the end of your right punch can be a pull. Your right hand pull then start your left hand punch.

 

[skribs]

You can put on a

- square wheel that rotate 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, and still 1, 2, 3, 4, ...
- round wheel that rotate smoothly.

Many MA systems combine the end of your previous move with the beginning of your next move. This way, all your moves are connected and there is no break in between. For example, the end of your right punch can be a pull. Your right hand pull then start your left hand punch.

I'm not sure what you mean by square wheel and round wheel.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm not sure what you mean by square wheel and round wheel.

 

[Buka]

My art is Taekwondo. Our forms are done as snapshots of technique: rigid stances, distinct chambers, explosive power from one move to another (in most cases). Each technique should be crisp and clear, with no wasted movement. Between each technique or combination there should be a brief pause; a snapshot of the technique that you can demonstrate. Almost like a living picture. Here is an example of one of the forms being done: Taegeuk #5.

I've been watching Youtube videos lately of guitarists who will take a riff, and play that riff in the style of 20 other bands. For example, they will take the main riff for AC/DC's Back-in-Black and keep the melody, but also throw in the style of other bands like Metallica or Korn. This got me thinking...

What about doing a Taekwondo form in 20 different styles?

How do your kata compare to something like this? If I were to adapt a Taekwondo form (not necessarily the one in the video) to your style, what sort of changes would I make to it?

It could be serious changes, or it could just be changes that have fun with it. What do you got?

What an original and wonderfully complex thought. Rock on, brother.

I'll be thinking about this all day.

 

[skribs]

I'll try again. I know what a square wheel and round wheel are. I don't know what your metaphor is comparing that to martial arts and forms.

I'm also looking to emulate specific styles. For example, this is the type of video I'm referring to:

Where I wouldn't just do my forms different, but where I would do them to emulate the forms of other martial arts.

 

[Kababayan]

What a great question. My forms tend to be mostly hands with a kick ending the series, so I would add a group of rapid-strike hand movements before each kick.

 

[wab25]

I'll try again. I know what a square wheel and round wheel are. I don't know what your metaphor is comparing that to martial arts and forms.

I'm also looking to emulate specific styles. For example, this is the type of video I'm referring to:

Where I wouldn't just do my forms different, but where I would do them to emulate the forms of other martial arts.

All those styles and he forgot the most important... acoustic guitar

And as runner up, some Thunderstruck:

 

[TSDTexan]

My art is Taekwondo. Our forms are done as snapshots of technique: rigid stances, distinct chambers, explosive power from one move to another (in most cases). Each technique should be crisp and clear, with no wasted movement. Between each technique or combination there should be a brief pause; a snapshot of the technique that you can demonstrate. Almost like a living picture. Here is an example of one of the forms being done: Taegeuk #5.

I've been watching Youtube videos lately of guitarists who will take a riff, and play that riff in the style of 20 other bands. For example, they will take the main riff for AC/DC's Back-in-Black and keep the melody, but also throw in the style of other bands like Metallica or Korn. This got me thinking...

What about doing a Taekwondo form in 20 different styles?

How do your kata compare to something like this? If I were to adapt a Taekwondo form (not necessarily the one in the video) to your style, what sort of changes would I make to it?

It could be serious changes, or it could just be changes that have fun with it. What do you got?

I will be going off on a tangent here. I will answer your question proper later today.

ok. so here goes...
this gets philosophical but imo still true.
Emphasis on the how of doing something doesn't change the fundamental nature of something.
in other words, the word style is a subjective and inherently artificial thing.

I know six forms of the form commonly called Nihanchi shodan. They are all the same form. their are minor details that differ, and they are different in emphasis. But they are still the same.

Kanken Toyama went on at great length to dispell the notion or concept of style. His response could be summed up as... there are no styles of karate. It is karate, or it is a different art... kendo etc.

Toyama would look at tkd as the Korean way of doing 'Te' given just how much karate forms were part of the early kwans curriculum.

there is a two part blog entry on Toyama's rebutal to style on karate by Jesse's website

Styles of Karate (pt.1) – by Kanken Toyama

 

[Buka]

Okay, so here's what I got to start with. There were four front kicks to the head, American Karate would have two of them to the body.

The sidekicks thrown with the back leg would be replaced with something else. In nearly fifty years, neither me or any of my students other than a white belt, was ever hit with a back leg side kick. Not in competition, not in the dojo, not anywhere, ever. Just too easy to see coming. Even with fakes. And American Karate, at lease as we know it, is an advanced kicking style.

But take it all with a grain of salt, because I really don't know as much about Kata as I should. Any Kata.

 

[dvcochran]

All those styles and he forgot the most important... acoustic guitar

And as runner up, some Thunderstruck:

Awesome videos! How he does both hands differently on Thunderstruck is incredible.

 

[CB Jones]

don't know what your metaphor is comparing that to martial arts and forms.

He is referring to the pauses in between the techniques instead of flowing from one technique to another.

 

[skribs]

Okay, so here's what I got to start with. There were four front kicks to the head, American Karate would have two of them to the body.

The sidekicks thrown with the back leg would be replaced with something else. In nearly fifty years, neither me or any of my students other than a white belt, was ever hit with a back leg side kick. Not in competition, not in the dojo, not anywhere, ever. Just too easy to see coming. Even with fakes. And American Karate, at lease as we know it, is an advanced kicking style.

But take it all with a grain of salt, because I really don't know as much about Kata as I should. Any Kata.

So your art would have the form have less repetition, so that you get more techniques out of the form?

What about the style and pacing in general? Would it look similar, or would yours be faster or slower, more staccato or more flowy?

 

[skribs]

@TSDTexan regarding styles, I think there is good and bad ways of comparing styles.

For a beginner, comparing styles is tough, because you don't know much about martial arts besides what you see in movies and the big stereotypes. In this case, picking styles is usually bad, as it's better to pick a school or an instructor. If you are comparing styles for the sake of flexing your muscles and showing how much better your style is...that's also bad.

Where it's good is from an experienced person to find styles that fit what they want to enhance from what they already know. Or to compare styles for the sake of conversation between two people, who might have a different way of doing things. For example, if one style has 50 drills they call "forms" and I have 8 long kata that I call "forms", then comparing styles is comparing what is a form, and why does he have so many and I have so few.

Now, if I'm sitting there and saying "your style is bad because your forms are short" or he's saying "your style is bad because you only have 8 forms", then it's a bad comparison. But if I try and visualize learning 50 concepts in their forms, or he tries to visualize memorizing the long kata we have, then we can exchange ideas.

So I think that style is both important and not important. It's not important in that the master and student are more important than the particular style, and that at advanced levels the lines between them get blurred. It is important for the exchange of ideas.

 

[TSDTexan]

Okay, so here's what I got to start with. There were four front kicks to the head, American Karate would have two of them to the body.

The sidekicks thrown with the back leg would be replaced with something else. In nearly fifty years, neither me or any of my students other than a white belt, was ever hit with a back leg side kick. Not in competition, not in the dojo, not anywhere, ever. Just too easy to see coming. Even with fakes. And American Karate, at lease as we know it, is an advanced kicking style.

But take it all with a grain of salt, because I really don't know as much about Kata as I should. Any Kata.

Your humility and transparency are worthy of emulation.

 

[Buka]

So your art would have the form have less repetition, so that you get more techniques out of the form?

What about the style and pacing in general? Would it look similar, or would yours be faster or slower, more staccato or more flowy?

No, not necessarily more techniques. Not less repetition, we'd go with some of the front kicks to the body because I think them more applicable in a fight than they are to the head.

The pacing would be different, yes, it would be less flowy and more staccato, more twitchy.

 

[Buka]

@TSDTexan regarding styles, I think there is good and bad ways of comparing styles.

For a beginner, comparing styles is tough, because you don't know much about martial arts besides what you see in movies and the big stereotypes. In this case, picking styles is usually bad, as it's better to pick a school or an instructor. If you are comparing styles for the sake of flexing your muscles and showing how much better your style is...that's also bad.

Where it's good is from an experienced person to find styles that fit what they want to enhance from what they already know. Or to compare styles for the sake of conversation between two people, who might have a different way of doing things. For example, if one style has 50 drills they call "forms" and I have 8 long kata that I call "forms", then comparing styles is comparing what is a form, and why does he have so many and I have so few.

Now, if I'm sitting there and saying "your style is bad because your forms are short" or he's saying "your style is bad because you only have 8 forms", then it's a bad comparison. But if I try and visualize learning 50 concepts in their forms, or he tries to visualize memorizing the long kata we have, then we can exchange ideas.

So I think that style is both important and not important. It's not important in that the master and student are more important than the particular style, and that at advanced levels the lines between them get blurred. It is important for the exchange of ideas.

I have a difficult time comparing styles, too, and I ain't no beginner. I think of the people I know who have absolutely smoked me, I mean just took me to school fighting wise.

They are from so many different styles it ain't even funny.

 

[TSDTexan]

My art is Taekwondo. Our forms are done as snapshots of technique: rigid stances, distinct chambers, explosive power from one move to another (in most cases). Each technique should be crisp and clear, with no wasted movement. Between each technique or combination there should be a brief pause; a snapshot of the technique that you can demonstrate. Almost like a living picture. Here is an example of one of the forms being done: Taegeuk #5.

I've been watching Youtube videos lately of guitarists who will take a riff, and play that riff in the style of 20 other bands. For example, they will take the main riff for AC/DC's Back-in-Black and keep the melody, but also throw in the style of other bands like Metallica or Korn. This got me thinking...

What about doing a Taekwondo form in 20 different styles?

How do your kata compare to something like this? If I were to adapt a Taekwondo form (not necessarily the one in the video) to your style, what sort of changes would I make to it?

It could be serious changes, or it could just be changes that have fun with it. What do you got?

This form could be dropped straight into the Doshinkan curriculum exactly like it is, and no one would blink an eye.

The inside blocks have a slightly different starting position than ours. we tend to start further up and back and sweep the arm into position;
Also, rather then terminating the block directly on the centerline... we sweep just past center as to parry a linear incoming strike so that it will miss the body


about the starting position...

ending position (sorry that it drawn with the other arm) if that block was done with body roation.

If no significant body rotation is being done... then the block crosses the centerline to end with the fist forward of the collar bone. Fist would be at between 10 & 11 O'clock position and the elbow between 4 and 5 O'clock.

 

[CB Jones]

The sidekicks thrown with the back leg would be replaced with something else. In nearly fifty years, neither me or any of my students other than a white belt, was ever hit with a back leg side kick.

My sons school doesnt use the back leg side kick either....they only use the front leg side kick.

 

[Danny T]

I'm not sure what you mean by square wheel and round wheel.

Smooth, relaxed flow of power vs start/stop snapping movements.