Full Contact HapKiDo
- Thread starter WilliamJ
- Start date
Kumbajah
Purple Belt
Hey Bruce,
Just from your previous post I am reading that you are against competition and view it as a distraction. Is this a view that you hold for all MAs or just Hapkido.
For me personally I think a little "live action" can enhance traditional training. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. In my view they are just extensions of flow drills and can be part of the progression and / or aid learning.
In Hapkido most of us (presumptuous I know) start learning a technique through a wrist grab. Then you start to learn from other angles (other grabs, push, punches, sitting etc) You start slow learn the biomechanics of the technique and speed up as you gain proficiency. You have a set attack and a set response when learning x technique. Then you may vary the attack (straight punch vs arching punch). The variety can expand to the point of sparing. Or at least one sided sparing where one is just attacking and one defends.
In another vein - you don't always practice with the same partner. You learn that everyone doesn't respond to the same techniques the same way. Some people may be more flexible than others and a lock has to be "followed through more" or some people are more or less susceptible to certain pressure points. You learn distancing varies with the person you are practicing with. "wow his leg doesn't look that long"
So in this light I think that competition can be a valuable aide in the learning process. It will not teach you the art but can help with getting some of the broad strokes down.
From personal experience - Many of the throws that I learned in Hapkido are similar to those in Judo. There is a nastiness factor in Hapkido granted. But in also learning Judo I am refining those throws and found that I have a grater chance of pulling them off in a sd situation if I can pull them off in a Shiai. Here is someone I don't know (never trained with) they basically know what's coming and are trying to do the same to me. If I can make it work on them - chances are better that I can make it work on someone that doesn't know its coming.
I agree that I don't want to see Hapkido go down the same road as TKD but I don't think you need to throw out the baby with the bath water. Competition is not a quick fix. It is hard work. It does help with adjusting to the situation or water principle if you will.
Thoughts?
Brian
Just from your previous post I am reading that you are against competition and view it as a distraction. Is this a view that you hold for all MAs or just Hapkido.
For me personally I think a little "live action" can enhance traditional training. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. In my view they are just extensions of flow drills and can be part of the progression and / or aid learning.
In Hapkido most of us (presumptuous I know) start learning a technique through a wrist grab. Then you start to learn from other angles (other grabs, push, punches, sitting etc) You start slow learn the biomechanics of the technique and speed up as you gain proficiency. You have a set attack and a set response when learning x technique. Then you may vary the attack (straight punch vs arching punch). The variety can expand to the point of sparing. Or at least one sided sparing where one is just attacking and one defends.
In another vein - you don't always practice with the same partner. You learn that everyone doesn't respond to the same techniques the same way. Some people may be more flexible than others and a lock has to be "followed through more" or some people are more or less susceptible to certain pressure points. You learn distancing varies with the person you are practicing with. "wow his leg doesn't look that long"
So in this light I think that competition can be a valuable aide in the learning process. It will not teach you the art but can help with getting some of the broad strokes down.
From personal experience - Many of the throws that I learned in Hapkido are similar to those in Judo. There is a nastiness factor in Hapkido granted. But in also learning Judo I am refining those throws and found that I have a grater chance of pulling them off in a sd situation if I can pull them off in a Shiai. Here is someone I don't know (never trained with) they basically know what's coming and are trying to do the same to me. If I can make it work on them - chances are better that I can make it work on someone that doesn't know its coming.
I agree that I don't want to see Hapkido go down the same road as TKD but I don't think you need to throw out the baby with the bath water. Competition is not a quick fix. It is hard work. It does help with adjusting to the situation or water principle if you will.
Thoughts?
Brian
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dear Brian:
"....Just from your previous post I am reading that you are against competition and view it as a distraction. Is this a view that you hold for all MAs or just Hapkido. ...."
Whoa!! Good thing you asked. As you say lets not toss the baby with the bath water, right? Some martial arts have transitioned to the point that sports figures quite prominently! Look at Archery, Judo, Wrestling, TKD, Boxing and Karate just to name a few. All of these have their successful sport component and every one of these had its military component early-on.
I am a traditional Hapkido person and there never was a "sport component" to the Hapkido arts. And of course, maybe someday there may even be such a component. Who am I to bet against it? What I am here to say is that if "sport" is .22 target rifles, then Hapkido is a ambush fire-fight. If "sport" is archery, then Hapkido is bow-hunting. If "sport" is stock-car racing, then Hapkido is "running moonshine". There is a seriousness of intent behind Hapkido I would hope would never be lost. As it is we already have people talking about how various Korean traditions are "dead". I am here to tell you they may be outdated--- anachronistic, if you will--- but they are not dead by a long shot. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
"....Just from your previous post I am reading that you are against competition and view it as a distraction. Is this a view that you hold for all MAs or just Hapkido. ...."
Whoa!! Good thing you asked. As you say lets not toss the baby with the bath water, right? Some martial arts have transitioned to the point that sports figures quite prominently! Look at Archery, Judo, Wrestling, TKD, Boxing and Karate just to name a few. All of these have their successful sport component and every one of these had its military component early-on.
I am a traditional Hapkido person and there never was a "sport component" to the Hapkido arts. And of course, maybe someday there may even be such a component. Who am I to bet against it? What I am here to say is that if "sport" is .22 target rifles, then Hapkido is a ambush fire-fight. If "sport" is archery, then Hapkido is bow-hunting. If "sport" is stock-car racing, then Hapkido is "running moonshine". There is a seriousness of intent behind Hapkido I would hope would never be lost. As it is we already have people talking about how various Korean traditions are "dead". I am here to tell you they may be outdated--- anachronistic, if you will--- but they are not dead by a long shot. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
iron_ox
Black Belt
WilliamJ said:
Hey William,
It has been a while, thanks for remembering me!!
I hope you continue to post your insights here, despite the effort to drag you into a little spat - I have always known you to be one of the most level headed and even tempered guys I have EVER known - and you had to be to put up with our little bunch back in '91-92.Anyway, as I advised you, there are elements here that are just as well ignored - they already know all the answers - but the rest of the crew here is really a bunch of interesting and useful guys and gals...
I've told you my objections to this particular group. Aside from the sporting aspects which I am not comfortable with - but it does seem to work well for some people - I'm just not sure how much "Hapkido" can be done in such a strict rules controlled environment.
We'll talk soon!
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glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dear William:
".....Greetings gents and ladies. I was browsing around the forum here a little and thought this might be of interest. I did a search and didn't see this topic around so if this is a repeat please forgive.
Full contact HapKiDo tournaments are making some noise out in CA, and I think it might be a major step in the development and progression of the art. I trained under this forum's own Iron Ox for a few years some time back, hey Kev long time no see bro, and have since trained in Judo and BJJ. The addition of live resistance to HapKiDo seems to me to be a very positiive thing.
For those who are curious, http://www.pro-hapkido.com/ Take a look in the video section, there is a short demo clip from the tournament DVD....."
Maybe I am hearing this wrong, but with the advent of Kevins post, I am beginning to wonder if this string is less about discussing the various aspects of this activity on the Hapkido community than on promoting a particular agenda. I wouldn't raise this point at all except that if what you are doing is promoting something, there is a place to do that on this Net. Starting a string under the guise of discussion when all you may be doing to trying to get cheap advertizing is a bit dis-ingenuous, don't you think? I am not sure how other people viewed this string but I was looking at it as a discussion of relative merits of the activity. If a person starts a discussion with a particular agenda in mind, I am not sure that the discussion will be authentic as they will say about anything to keep the advertising going. Is this what you are doing? I am also familiar with the attitude of a few BJJ advocates who often initiate a string under the guise of "discussing things" but are not interested in anything more than deriding other's practices to promote their own material. Hope this isn't what you had in mind here, was it?
Best Wishes,
Bruce
".....Greetings gents and ladies. I was browsing around the forum here a little and thought this might be of interest. I did a search and didn't see this topic around so if this is a repeat please forgive.
Full contact HapKiDo tournaments are making some noise out in CA, and I think it might be a major step in the development and progression of the art. I trained under this forum's own Iron Ox for a few years some time back, hey Kev long time no see bro, and have since trained in Judo and BJJ. The addition of live resistance to HapKiDo seems to me to be a very positiive thing.
For those who are curious, http://www.pro-hapkido.com/ Take a look in the video section, there is a short demo clip from the tournament DVD....."
Maybe I am hearing this wrong, but with the advent of Kevins post, I am beginning to wonder if this string is less about discussing the various aspects of this activity on the Hapkido community than on promoting a particular agenda. I wouldn't raise this point at all except that if what you are doing is promoting something, there is a place to do that on this Net. Starting a string under the guise of discussion when all you may be doing to trying to get cheap advertizing is a bit dis-ingenuous, don't you think? I am not sure how other people viewed this string but I was looking at it as a discussion of relative merits of the activity. If a person starts a discussion with a particular agenda in mind, I am not sure that the discussion will be authentic as they will say about anything to keep the advertising going. Is this what you are doing? I am also familiar with the attitude of a few BJJ advocates who often initiate a string under the guise of "discussing things" but are not interested in anything more than deriding other's practices to promote their own material. Hope this isn't what you had in mind here, was it?
Best Wishes,
Bruce
Why would I care about advertising something that I get no profit from? I have not been actively involved in HapKiDo in any way since I last saw Iron Ox. The only agenda here was support of live training, which I am quite a fan of. If I wanted to sell things I would at least shill upcoming seminars at a school I actually attend.
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
".....Why would I care about advertising something that I get no profit from?...."
Yes, I understand that position implicitly. My mistake.
Regards,
Bruce
Yes, I understand that position implicitly. My mistake.
Regards,
Bruce
Sorry to butt in but...
I would like to point out that this tournament is under the auspices of the World Hapkido Association, and that at this tournament, GM Hwang In Sik & GM Han Bong Soo were present.
Note that GM Hwang is the head instructor of the WHA, so discussions about "authenticity to the spirit of hapkido" are moot I think...
Austin
I would like to point out that this tournament is under the auspices of the World Hapkido Association, and that at this tournament, GM Hwang In Sik & GM Han Bong Soo were present.
Note that GM Hwang is the head instructor of the WHA, so discussions about "authenticity to the spirit of hapkido" are moot I think...
Austin
In fact the rules were designed so that free-fighting is not stifled. As you will note, points are deducted for being overly defensive and for sitting around. Moreover, combinations are awarded more points. Brawling is not allowed, and techniques executed *properly* score higher.iron_ox said:
Points are usually scored in a cumulative manner and fighting is not stopped to announce an awarded point...the fighting stops when someone taps out or gets injured/knocked out.
Why does it end up in grappling/throwing? Quite simply because people are usually better at this than applying hand techniques in a free-fighting situation...and so it is a reflection of their training more than anything else.
Just so you are aware...these rules are based on the "scoring" that Master Hwang uses during his free-fighting class.
Austin
I just thought I'd inform you guys that I'll be in Ohio next weekend and get a good chance to see a Hapkido tourny first hand,as well as taking in a couple workshops with a certain member of this forum...:wink2:
I am really looking forward to observing how one would employ Hapkido techniques in a ring,so I'll definitely be back here with some pic's and observations,however lacking in substance they may be.(observations,that is)
I am really looking forward to observing how one would employ Hapkido techniques in a ring,so I'll definitely be back here with some pic's and observations,however lacking in substance they may be.(observations,that is)
The good ol' Ahhnald Classic in Columbus. I guess they are having a Hapkido tourny this year,soooo I am definitely gonna check that out.
I will say that I am obviously biased towards "Sport MA",but I will try my best to keep an open mind. I am sure that I'll have fun,though. Not really sure on the exact date,it has to be either the 4,5 or 6th,though..:uhyeah:
I will say that I am obviously biased towards "Sport MA",but I will try my best to keep an open mind. I am sure that I'll have fun,though. Not really sure on the exact date,it has to be either the 4,5 or 6th,though..:uhyeah:
Main webpage
http://www.arnoldmartialarts.com/home.html
Looks like Master Timmerman is doing a workshop.
http://www.arnoldmartialarts.com/martial%20artists%20workshop%20list.html
http://www.arnoldmartialarts.com/home.html
Looks like Master Timmerman is doing a workshop.
http://www.arnoldmartialarts.com/martial%20artists%20workshop%20list.html
Dusty
Orange Belt
Hi Paul and all. i plan on being there too. i was originally going to help Master Pinkowski with the running of the tourny, but i havent heard anything from him, so i am just going to go down and take in the sights. the hapkido tourny is on the saturday. i also plan on taking in Master Timmerman;s seminar as well. i am a long distance student of his, so i take in whatever i can from him. for anyone else that might be in the area, his seminars are well worth the money. i would highly reccomend them to any martial artist.
see you there.
see you there.
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