Hapkido vs TaeKwon Do

[H@pkid0ist]

My last word on this I swear. It should be you get out of it what you put in to it reguardless of age, not how long you have paid into it. That is a McDojo. McDojos carry stock in bandaids, real schools just mop up all the blood and swet you shed to better yourself.

 

[Danny]

Very well said H@pkid0ist.

 

[Eraser]

hapkidoist..
Couldn't have said it any better..
You can say all you want about the age of 1st,2nd,3rd dan..
But if they put in the time then they deserve it!!
Nuff said!!

 

[MartialArtist]

I agree with hapkidoist, but...

I don't care how good you are, you shouldn't be holding anything higher than a 1st dan in your teens. Testing doesn't go like that per-say. You may have extraordinary skill, but even if you happen to be 25 and the greatest martial artist alive, you shouldn't have a 3rd or 4th. It shows how much experience you have and although you have great skill, you do not have the knowledge in the art as older, more experienced people have. They always have something to add (presuming they don't know what a McDojo is)

 

[H@pkid0ist]

Originally posted by MartialArtist


I don't care how good you are, you shouldn't be holding anything higher than a 1st dan in your teens. Testing doesn't go like that per-say. You may have extraordinary skill, but even if you happen to be 25 and the greatest martial artist alive, you shouldn't have a 3rd or 4th.

Who's rule is this. Its no different than if someone started at 25 and got their rank equivelently. This is how it has been for ages. People think the way you are talking becouse that is all they are exposed to or they are going on the thoughts and opinions of someone who has been comercialized. It isnt about how long you have paid that $60. or so dollar monthly fee and all those hyphenated belt testing fees. Its about what you have earned. Being a teen in no way means that you don't have the experience or understanding. Age is not a boundry, only closemindeness. We should all strive to achive an open minded attitude. Strive for perfection. Perfection is impossible. Strive for the impossible.

 

[Danny]

I got my Junior BB at 11. I'm sorry but 9 years is to long of a wait from 1st to 2nd. I respect my elders but the fact remains I am more skilled, more experienced (by far) and a better instructor then all of the elder 1st Dans at my club.

 

[H@pkid0ist]

So MartialArtists. No matter how good you are if you are young you do not deserve what you have earned. That makes no sense.If you have earned it and are good then you should be treated accordingly. I don't know where all this mind set came from but it shure as hell isnt from the past masters. At least not a majority. This waiting a certian age before you deserveany grade is ludacris. What is happening then is no different then sexism or raceism. Its ageism. I coud understand if someone was a 6 year old black belt or and 8 year old 2nd or up. Children this old don't even have the strength for the techniques that don't require strength. I have never met a child that young that truly is capable of not just all the techniques, but the understanding of them and moral responsabilities. A person in their late teens and early 20s is different though. They do know and understand these things. And if they have put in the time, years, and training they should be rewarded accordingly. If they Deserve it. Just becouse they didn't start at 30 or something doesnt mean they should be treated differently. Looking down on them becouse of their age isn't an adult thing to do.

 

[Bagatha]

Originally posted by MartialArtist

I agree with hapkidoist, but...

I don't care how good you are, you shouldn't be holding anything higher than a 1st dan in your teens. Testing doesn't go like that per-say. You may have extraordinary skill, but even if you happen to be 25 and the greatest martial artist alive, you shouldn't have a 3rd or 4th. It shows how much experience you have and although you have great skill, you do not have the knowledge in the art as older, more experienced people have. They always have something to add (presuming they don't know what a McDojo is)

Funny you should say that.....at what age did bruce lee begin his own style? 27ish? He had no rank that I am aware of but if there was a belt system, he would be the grandmaster of his style, and who are you to say he didnt deserve it?

 

[Eraser]

OK...
I hoope this thread doesn't start a war...(naw.. im sure we can all be cool in here right??)

BUt im still on Hapkidoist side.. only because.. of my instructors.. yes they are young.. but they have been in Hapkido for 15 yrs now.. and when you see how they teach.. and the skill level they do have you can then understand that they do deserve the rank they have.. NOW.. dont get me wrong, there are some people that have Dan ranks that don't deserve them..
But I KNow that's not the case with my school.. don't believe me.. come on down and see for yourself.. our school door is open to everyone!!!

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by H@pkid0ist



Who's rule is this. Its no different than if someone started at 25 and got their rank equivelently. This is how it has been for ages. People think the way you are talking becouse that is all they are exposed to or they are going on the thoughts and opinions of someone who has been comercialized. It isnt about how long you have paid that $60. or so dollar monthly fee and all those hyphenated belt testing fees. Its about what you have earned. Being a teen in no way means that you don't have the experience or understanding. Age is not a boundry, only closemindeness. We should all strive to achive an open minded attitude. Strive for perfection. Perfection is impossible. Strive for the impossible.

I haven't been exposed to the commercialization until late in my training as I've trained in Korea first and stayed with my elder family for a while.

You simply DON'T have enough time to earn a 3-4 dan when you are in your teens.

Age is not a boundary for skill, but it definetly is a boundary for experience and general wisdom.

You shouldn't get your 3rd dan when people traditionally spent at least 30 getting such a rank.

And most people don't know the meaning of how much blood is spilled on the dojang. Become a follower of a combat TKD instructor in Korea and you'll see how much blood, puke, and sweat there is.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by H@pkid0ist

So MartialArtists. No matter how good you are if you are young you do not deserve what you have earned. That makes no sense.If you have earned it and are good then you should be treated accordingly. I don't know where all this mind set came from but it shure as hell isnt from the past masters. At least not a majority. This waiting a certian age before you deserveany grade is ludacris. What is happening then is no different then sexism or raceism. Its ageism. I coud understand if someone was a 6 year old black belt or and 8 year old 2nd or up. Children this old don't even have the strength for the techniques that don't require strength. I have never met a child that young that truly is capable of not just all the techniques, but the understanding of them and moral responsabilities. A person in their late teens and early 20s is different though. They do know and understand these things. And if they have put in the time, years, and training they should be rewarded accordingly. If they Deserve it. Just becouse they didn't start at 30 or something doesnt mean they should be treated differently. Looking down on them becouse of their age isn't an adult thing to do.

No, you are taking things wrong.

If you are young, it has no indication on skill. But you do not earn belts like the way you describe. A lot of teachers are lenient on what they test and a lot of the tests are pretty much forms, some kicks, some rolling, some sparring, breaking, etc. For other people, you had to test in a period of one month. Can you imagine that? Yes, people fail tests. A minute mistake might cost you.

You simply don't have enough experience. I don't care how old you are, but if you've been training since you're six and you're 20 now, 14 years isn't enough. I would say the same with a 44 year old who started training in his 30's.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Bagatha



Funny you should say that.....at what age did bruce lee begin his own style? 27ish? He had no rank that I am aware of but if there was a belt system, he would be the grandmaster of his style, and who are you to say he didnt deserve it?

Lee created his own style, and he started training around 14. 13 years isn't bad, but not enough to be a grandmaster. Bruce Lee didn't consider himself a grandmaster. If you read his "Tao of Gung Fu" you see some grandmasters that he has listed, from the late Yip Man to the founder of Chin Woo. That's grandmaster status.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Eraser

OK...
I hoope this thread doesn't start a war...(naw.. im sure we can all be cool in here right??)

BUt im still on Hapkidoist side.. only because.. of my instructors.. yes they are young.. but they have been in Hapkido for 15 yrs now.. and when you see how they teach.. and the skill level they do have you can then understand that they do deserve the rank they have.. NOW.. dont get me wrong, there are some people that have Dan ranks that don't deserve them..
But I KNow that's not the case with my school.. don't believe me.. come on down and see for yourself.. our school door is open to everyone!!!

It is not so much the rank for being a good teacher.

You can be a 1st dan and be a better teacher than even the grandmaster in terms of teaching ability, not skill or knowledge or experience. The question is, if he deserved the belt in real conditions?

Example...

One testing period over a span of a day to whatever depending on what rank you were going for:


Basic techniques
Basic drills
Memorization of Codes
Ability to apply the codes and showing it (yes, people watch you)
Stamina
Some sort of mind endurance test (it differs. I had to do numerous pushups over a small creek with an instructor with a stick and it gets pretty cold in Korea)
Weapons
Breaking
Forms
Sparring and more sparring

And a mistake, something as small as doing a walking stance instead of a front stance in a form could cost you. Although you have more room to make mistakes in combat (weapons and hand-to-hand), it was pretty tough. I failed many tests. 99.999% would fail at least 5 tests by the time they reach 2nd dan.

Now, does that mean people can go with lower ITF or WTF standards and get black belts? Yes, but I wouldn't say they deserve it in military TKD standards, not at all, not even close. Does that mean there aren't a lot of hard trainers? No, but I doubt that they've been exposed to such conditions.

 

[H@pkid0ist]

I still have to disagree with you MartialArtist. I have found that teens generaly have more time to study than a buisy family man who has to balance his time between job, wife, children, household responsabilities, Where teens mostly have school and self. Even if you start at 8 or so 10 years of study is the same as if you start at 20. An older person doesnt understand all the responsabilities and ideaoligies right away. Thats why they call it a learning process. I stand firm on my original thoughts, but do respect you opinion. This is my 22 years of training speaking.

 

[MartialArtist]

Busy family man... Well, that's not really how the case was. It was like boot camp. From the early ages to your 20's, there were people who stayed there the whole time. It was like being a disciple. And to a lot of them, it was their job, their way of life. I went back to the States during HS and went back after I got married to train again. Korea's culture is different from the culture of the US. The US, you have to balance work, everything.

Oh yeah, our schooling didn't come from a school like the states. Our schooling came from them.

If you want to get a better idea of what it really is like over there, I suggest you find an instructor (a lot of good ones only select a few) and train with him for a year. It is like learning a new language. You won't be fluent at it unless you live in the country and speak it, use it, and apply it every day of the year.

 

[Bagatha]

Welcome to the twenty-first century Martial artist. You still havent answered my questions below.....

 

[H@pkid0ist]

While in the military I was stationed in Korea. I know all about the life over there. I spent a year alone without any family and had no other alternative than to experience the culture and life. Remember your life isnt nescessarialy A typical. Nothing 100% or allways the same. Also, 2 of my newer students studied over there for 4 years as child dependants of Army parents. They only reinforce my beliefs.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by H@pkid0ist

While in the military I was stationed in Korea. I know all about the life over there. I spent a year alone without any family and had no other alternative than to experience the culture and life. Remember your life isnt nescessarialy A typical. Nothing 100% or allways the same. Also, 2 of my newer students studied over there for 4 years as child dependants of Army parents. They only reinforce my beliefs.

Did they study combat TKD or sport? The two lifestyles are very different. Both train all day, but the other one promotes way faster for its obvious reasons... If you have a great tap sparrer as a red belt, it would be your best bet to bring him into the black belt division.

However, combat, you earn it. You earn it through your knowledge, experience, and skill. To many people's standards, the teens you see as 3rd or 4th dan won't get it past 1st in twice the time they got their 3rd dan.

If some people really did earn it, there is the group that doesn't deserve it. The strict and high standards are there for a reason. And not many of them would survive a few weeks of it. Think NFL camp. But with more pain and even more mental training.