From Kosho-Ryu Kempo...

[Chris Parker]

If that's your question, Milt, then based on the movements, there is no way that is a traditional kata. It's more realistically a series of kihon movements and others strung together. Personally, I wouldn't class it as a kata (from a Japanese martial art sense, at least). That's why I was asking if you knew it's origins. There are just far too many hallmarks to ignore that way.

 

[Zoran]

Thank you, Zoran...
Missed you in Vegas last year.

Sadly (or happily) I did not design the form. I posted only to try to find out if anyone has seen a similar one in another Kenpo, or related art. Mostly to asertain if the background was a traditional one. I know the kata has been around for 25 or 30 years, anyway.
Agreed... The biggest critics (especially the negative ones, it seems) have little or nothing to share of their own... Other then their own opinions.

Nice to hear from you again!
Milt G.

Good to see you around to. I planned to go to Vegas then life decided to change things around on me. Darn that life.

Hope to make one of them again, to bad it was not Chicago, it was so convenient.

 

[Milt G.]

If that's your question, Milt, then based on the movements, there is no way that is a traditional kata. It's more realistically a series of kihon movements and others strung together. Personally, I wouldn't class it as a kata (from a Japanese martial art sense, at least). That's why I was asking if you knew it's origins. There are just far too many hallmarks to ignore that way.

I think you are probably right, Chris...
Not much luck with any other theories so far.

Thanks, again!
Milt G.

 

[Milt G.]

Good to see you around to. I planned to go to Vegas then life decided to change things around on me. Darn that life.

Hope to make one of them again, to bad it was not Chicago, it was so convenient.

Good news, Zoran...
I think the GOE will be in Chicago, again, in 2013!

I definitely understand the "Life changing things" concept.
Hopefully you weathered the storm OK?
The economy is finally starting to catch up with me. I am hoping for positive change, soon.

Have a good one, my friend.
Milt G.

 

[Zoran]

Good news, Zoran...
I think the GOE will be in Chicago, again, in 2013!

If that is the case, then I will be there and I look forward to seeing you.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Found this, I do not know if it is the same kata but it may be a place to look

http://www.koshokempo.com/maainojo.html
Ma Ai No Jo - Combative Distancing Form - Bruce Juchnik created Ma Ai No Jo to teach angling and distancing. Ma Ai No Jo utilizes the Jo Staff.

 

[Milt G.]

Found this, I do not know if it is the same kata but it may be a place to look

http://www.koshokempo.com/maainojo.html
Ma Ai No Jo - Combative Distancing Form - Bruce Juchnik created Ma Ai No Jo to teach angling and distancing. Ma Ai No Jo utilizes the Jo Staff.

Thank you... I believe it is the kata I practice, Ma-Ai No Jo.
It comes from his (Juchnik's) lineage. I am wondering if there is a root kata?
It is possible he put it together himself, with little other Jo kata influence.
An interesting guy... Perhaps the most skilled martial artist (overall, not speciality) I have seen.

I appreciate your help very much!
Milt G.

 

[sksk]

The M-ai no Jo forms where developed by Juchnik sensei, to teach the concepts and principles of kosho ryu kempo

It certainly doe's not look or perform like traditional Japanese jo forms. When I asked him how he developed it he was heavily influenced by Chinese spear play and considers a jo a weaker weapon which requires more precise angling and body positions, then heavier weapons like the bo, etc. Take this for what it's worth.

 

[Milt G.]

The M-ai no Jo forms where developed by Juchnik sensei, to teach the concepts and principles of kosho ryu kempo

It certainly doe's not look or perform like traditional Japanese jo forms. When I asked him how he developed it he was heavily influenced by Chinese spear play and considers a jo a weaker weapon which requires more precise angling and body positions, then heavier weapons like the bo, etc. Take this for what it's worth.

Thank you, sksk...!
Milt G.

 

[Milt G.]

In thinking...?
It does seem kind of odd but logical that as I look into the orgins of the various kata traditional and otherwise, I find that they were all developed (made up?) by someone.
The important considerations seem to be "who" made them up, "when" and "why".

Very little of the program includes "divine intervention", as many believe.

I think that those on the "ground floor" of system (style) development had a pretty wide latitude in what to include, and why.
Those who influenced them left their mark, as well. I think it all came down to "personal belief" in many cases.


Oh well, back to "the books"...
Milt G.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The M-ai no Jo forms where developed by Juchnik sensei, to teach the concepts and principles of kosho ryu kempo

It certainly doe's not look or perform like traditional Japanese jo forms. When I asked him how he developed it he was heavily influenced by Chinese spear play and considers a jo a weaker weapon which requires more precise angling and body positions, then heavier weapons like the bo, etc. Take this for what it's worth.

Being a CMA guy I can honestly say I don't see any Chinese spear influence and since the Chinese spear tends to be a rather long weapon I do not see much of that crossing over to Jo. However it may be influenced by a modern Wushu spear form which is for show only, I don't really pay much attention to the Modern Wushu forms

 

[Flying Crane]

Being a CMA guy I can honestly say I don't see any Chinese spear influence and since the Chinese spear tends to be a rather long weapon I do not see much of that crossing over to Jo. However it may be influenced by a modern Wushu spear form which is for show only, I don't really pay much attention to the Modern Wushu forms

I think it looks even less like a modern wushu spear form than a traditional Chinese spear form. I've seen plenty of both.

 

[clfsean]

I think it looks even less like a modern wushu spear form than a traditional Chinese spear form. I've seen plenty of both.

Ditto that. I see about 0 spear in it to be honest. I've seen (and done) plenty of Northern & Southern spears TMA version & even learned a level 1 wushu spear routine. I've got nothing to see in there as Chinese.

 

[Chris Parker]

The M-ai no Jo forms where developed by Juchnik sensei, to teach the concepts and principles of kosho ryu kempo

It certainly doe's not look or perform like traditional Japanese jo forms. When I asked him how he developed it he was heavily influenced by Chinese spear play and considers a jo a weaker weapon which requires more precise angling and body positions, then heavier weapons like the bo, etc. Take this for what it's worth.

Yeah, seconded (thirded? Fourthed?) along with Flying Crane et al, there's really no spear in that form at all. And as far as considering Jo a weaker weapon than a Bo, honestly that's not filling me with confidence on the design of the form itself... mainly as all it really is are some basics of Ryukyu Kobudo Bojutsu strung together and shortened for the shorter weapon, however the shortening just doesn't work. Jo really is a different weapon. And as far as needing more precise angling and body positions than a bo... well, the best I could say is that that will depend on what it's going against.

And no, it looks nothing like a Japanese jo kata.... mainly as they are almost exclusively paired forms, and look like this:

Shinto Muso Ryu Jojutsu

Aikido Jo

Once again, though, I think Milt's performance of the sequence was good, but I think it's a stretch to consider that actually using a Jo as a weapon. It's misusing Bo methods in a way that robs them of a lot of power, by not understanding the difference between the weapons.

 

[Milt G.]

Hello...
I am becoming more and more confident that Bruce Juchnik developed this Jo form to teach the principles of his Kosho-Ryu Kenpo, as related to a traditional mid range weapon.
Nothing more, and nothing less.

I do enjoy performing the kata and do see many possible applications of the movement.
No... It is not a Bo, a spear, an Escrima stick or a knife. I believe the important points of this form are the positioning, and angles, as related to a possible opponent.

I thank everyone for their time and input here. And for watching my interpretation of the kata.
Nice to have a place to ask questions, and to share.
Milt G.

 

[billc]

I was there when he created the kata. It is interesting to see that it is still being used.