Speaking of forms, I seem to remember you were learning a Tai Chi form, am I correct on that?
Yes. I find Tai Chi forms a different animal than any other forms I’ve experienced, though.
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Speaking of forms, I seem to remember you were learning a Tai Chi form, am I correct on that?
How so?Yes. I find Tai Chi forms a different animal than any other forms I’ve experienced, though.
The founder of TSD actually studied Shotokan for several years before coming back to Korea sometime during the occupation. I believe he earned a 2nd degree (2nd dan) in Shotokan. Now whether or not he learned directly from Funokoshi sensei or another instructor is speculative.
Background: There are two basic sets of forms in most Kukkiwon schools, either the Palgwe forms or the Taegeuk forms.
Again, well, no. There are two form sets endorsed by the Kukkiwon. They are the Taegeuk (for geup ranks) and Yudanja (for Dan ranks) forms. That's it. Anything else you're teaching, while possibly quite useful, is absolutely not a part of the Kukkiwon curriculum.
We teach the Palgwae forms. I practice (and would teach, if anybody wanted to learn more forms) the Chang Hon forms. We also teach six Kicho (basic) forms. None of that is part of the Kukkiwon curriculum.
I think I like that kid, Skribs.Background: There are two basic sets of forms in most Kukkiwon schools, either the Palgwe forms or the Taegeuk forms. You'll also often find simpler Kibon forms in some of the earlier belts. My school, for example, has Kibon 1-5 and then Palgwe 1-8, and then the black belt forms. Our Palgwe forms are different than those I've seen at other schools, but I digress.
The form I made for our demonstration team has a lot of techniques and patterns from Palgwe 4, 5, & 6, a few of the Taegeuks (I don't remember which ones at the moment), and a few of our black belt forms. Our red belts and black belts that join demo team have a fairly easy time with the form, but we had a green belt join (about 8 or 9 years old), and she's been having a tough time because she has only learned up to Palgwe 3 so far. I tried to explain to her it's easier for everyone else because they've done most of the moves already and just need to learn the new order for them.
She saw a blue belt performing Palgwe 4 in class, and glared at me and mouthed "REALLY?"
I think I like that kid, Skribs.
Mostly the latter.Just her attitude in general, or because she glared at me, specifically?
Well, no, because there was no single founder of TSD. Tang Soo Do is merely the Korean pronunciation of what a Japanese speaker would pronounce Karate-Do. It was a generic term used, initially, by lots of schools. It is currently only used (as far as I am aware) by branches of the Moo Duk Kwan that left the unification effort with GM HWANG, Kee, but did not follow him when he changed the name of the system to Soo Bahk Do.
So you'd really have to specify the particular school, if you want to talk about founders.
A couple of random thoughts. I am picking up on the TKD forms pretty quickly, and now I know why.
You are probably right as to why General Choi would have wanted to create "new" forms that would de emphasize the Japanese and Okinawan roots of the Pyong Ahn forms. My old TSD master never mentioned it either, and we practiced those forms, along with Bassai in every class.
That said, I am thinking enough time has passed we should be able to talk about this stuff honestly, here at least, if not at the Dojang.
My sample size is small (2 schools) but that's been my experience at both schools. Actually, the school without the demonstration team actually emphasized MORE exactness in regular classes.
Our school has a demonstration team, a sparring club, and a self defense club, and the regular classes cover elements of all 3.
skribs
I'm sorry I meant no disrespect, I made my observation based on your description on the demo team having everyone kick at the same time, same height, same speed etc. etc. that to me calls up the vision of military preciseness; marching band, drill team, drum core, etc. etc. where everyone is having to execute things in proper order and a person can't be out of sync.
If you have that kind of an eye for exactness in execution of technique than I believe that would naturally flow through to your normal classes and the exactness of detail would be stressed.
Whereas I have none of that in my school, I do emphasize kata practice and try to align my training so that we don't do it in a way that would be looking good for the performance art aspect but rather the more so along the lines of the self defense aspect.
I got the more relaxed view on kata from my Modern Arnis training training. GM Remy allowed variation in stances moves etc. etc. because many students came from other arts. The emphasis was on the application more so than perfect form. Now in my classes we are naturally more uniformed in execution of the form (techniques etc. etc.) because I'm the head instructor and teach 95% of all of my classes, and all of my TKD students are kids. But I allow some variation in timing and stance, So I probably don't have near the exactness that you have in your school.
Dirty Dog
I was going by an article I read several years ago and memory at that, I wasn't aware that TSD was a common generic term like karate is or has now become, that could represent several styles. I thought it was one style that was created by an individual who mainly stuck to the using the old Heian/Pinan kata. Thank you for the correction.
How so?
There's also a very strong emphasis (from what little Tai Chi I've played with) on long weight shifts - shifts that wouldn't show up in other arts' forms that I'm aware of. And the weight shifts seem to have a timing with the movement of the feet that's different from what I've experienced elsewhere, or at least that's different from how it's emphasized.It's slow. Real slow.....
There's also a very strong emphasis (from what little Tai Chi I've played with) on long weight shifts - shifts that wouldn't show up in other arts' forms that I'm aware of. And the weight shifts seem to have a timing with the movement of the feet that's different from what I've experienced elsewhere, or at least that's different from how it's emphasized.