Forms = system?

[skribs]

Do you not block when you enter? To me, that's a large part of the entering...i don't care how quick my in-step is if I get punched or kicked in the face on my way in.

When I think of "enter" I think of aggression. So if I'm blocking, I think of it as they're entering and I'm countering.

Then again, "entering strategies" isn't a term we use at my dojang, so I may be internalizing it differently.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When I think of "enter" I think of aggression. So if I'm blocking, I think of it as they're entering and I'm countering.

Then again, "entering strategies" isn't a term we use at my dojang, so I may be internalizing it differently.

I can see that. When I speak of entering, I'm literally talking about a movement toward them (even if slightly off-line) to close distance. So, if I'm outside striking distance, I'm entering striking distance, for example.

 

[skribs]

I can see that. When I speak of entering, I'm literally talking about a movement toward them (even if slightly off-line) to close distance. So, if I'm outside striking distance, I'm entering striking distance, for example.

I think about half the arguments I get in on this site are due to people using different terminology. I'm not even talking about a language barrier, more like a jargon barrier.

Sometimes it's ABOUT the the words itself, and sometimes it's that me and someone else are saying the same thing, but using different words, so we go at each other's throats for 5 pages before figuring out we're talking about the same thing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think about half the arguments I get in on this site are due to people using different terminology. I'm not even talking about a language barrier, more like a jargon barrier.

Sometimes it's ABOUT the the words itself, and sometimes it's that me and someone else are saying the same thing, but using different words, so we go at each other's throats for 5 pages before figuring out we're talking about the same thing.

I try to watch for those, and define my term or figure out their usage. I'm not always successful in avoiding it, by any means.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think about half the arguments I get in on this site are due to people using different terminology. I'm not even talking about a language barrier, more like a jargon barrier.

Sometimes it's ABOUT the the words itself, and sometimes it's that me and someone else are saying the same thing, but using different words, so we go at each other's throats for 5 pages before figuring out we're talking about the same thing.

I want to rate this both funny and agree. I try to catch when it happens, and whenever I figure it out I start laughing and just let it go.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

A classic example would be slipping a punch in boxing to enter for a counter.

Classic nihanchi kata.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I often prefer to enter against the strike, which is less expected, and more likely to get me to clinch range.

I tend to prefer to fight inside, and I am definitely a counterpuncher by nature. I look for openings, but see them most often when the opponent throws something at me. I take it as my opportunity to move inside and wreck 'em up a bit whilst rerouting, blocking, or otherwise making their attack a moot point.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

wreck 'em up a bit

My favorite phrase this month, Bill.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What is Zimen, John? I'm not familiar with that term.

Zimen is a southern CMA system. It's specialized in finger tips pressure point attack.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I often prefer to enter against the strike, which is less expected, and more likely to get me to clinch range.

It's difficult to train this way. If you always let your opponent punches you, you then move in, you develop dependency on your opponent. If his punch is slow, the training may feel fake. If you enter with any speed that you can, the training can feel more realistic. I like to train my entering strategy when my opponent is on guard. I like to pull his guard apart.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's difficult to train this way. If you always let your opponent punches you, you then move in, you develop dependency on your opponent. If his punch is slow, the training may feel fake. If you enter with any speed that you can, the training can feel more realistic.

It's not about letting them punch first. It's about preferring to enter when they strike, rather than waiting until afterwards. I like to enter, and often only play from a distance to get them to commit forward to make my entry easier.

 

[skribs]

It's difficult to train this way. If you always let your opponent punches you, you then move in, you develop dependency on your opponent. If his punch is slow, the training may feel fake. If you enter with any speed that you can, the training can feel more realistic. I like to train my entering strategy when my opponent is on guard. I like to pull his guard apart.

At our school, during our 1-step sparring:

• White belts will punch, and then the other person will counter
• Orange belts will punch slow, and the other person will counter while the punch is being thrown
• Red belts will punch fast, and the other person will counter while the punch is being thrown
• Black belts will punch fast, and be close enough the other person will get hit if they don't counter

If all you do is punch slow this is bad. But slowing down at the start of the technique can be a good thing.

I was watching a video where a guitarist was talking about a drummer he knew that was very fast, who said he spent 90% of his time practicing at 60 BPM. Practicing slower helps you hone the specific parts of the technique that need to be worked on (but you do need to speed up in order to play at speed).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

- Some people train if you do ... I'll do ...
- I like to train when I do ... and if you respond ..., I'll do ...

The difference is "if you do ..." can be a infinite set. But "if you respond ..." can be a finite set. I like to deal with a smaller set of respond. When I kick your knee, you can't do a flying side kick at my head.

 

[skribs]

- Some people train if you do ... I'll do ...
- I like to train when I do ... and if you respond ..., I'll do ...

The difference is "if you do ..." can be a infinite set. But "if you respond ..." can be a finite set. I like to deal with a smaller set of respond. When I kick your knee, you can't do a flying side kick at my head.

That seems like an appropriate way to dodge your kick and counter.

I think training starts with the master saying "if you (person 1) does this, then you (person 2) do that."

Then it moves on to one of the ones you mention, and hopefully goes back and forth between them.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

- Some people train if you do ... I'll do ...
- I like to train when I do ... and if you respond ..., I'll do ...

The difference is "if you do ..." can be a infinite set. But "if you respond ..." can be a finite set. I like to deal with a smaller set of respond. When I kick your knee, you can't do a flying side kick at my head.

IMO, that's the same mentality on both sides. We all have to be able to react to what the other guy does (if you and your opponent both want to attack first, what do you do if he's faster?). Nearly all of my grappling is reactive. My striking is a mix of first-action and reactive (counter).

 

[skribs]

IMO, that's the same mentality on both sides. We all have to be able to react to what the other guy does (if you and your opponent both want to attack first, what do you do if he's faster?). Nearly all of my grappling is reactive. My striking is a mix of first-action and reactive (counter).

I think the difference is that @Kung Fu Wang is saying:

1. I want you to attack me in this way. Then I will practice a way to defend against it.
2. I am going to attack you, and see how I can combo off my attack depending on what your response to it is.

The first option seems a lot more static once it's established, but can be a lot more dynamic. You can practice for the person throwing a straight punch, a hook, an uppercut, a couple types of backfist, a hammerfist, and that's just punches.

If you want to drill this way, you can drill tons of techniques.

Alternatively, if your style is to lead with leg kick, you might practice different ways people react to leg kicks.

Now, I disagree with KFW that this makes it less things to practice. Because you can practice a ton of techniques as well. What it seems to me is that you're breaking practice down into either:

• Defense vs. Offense
• Muscle Memory vs. Failure Drills

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Nearly all of my grappling is reactive.

Judo uses more conservative approach. Chinese wrestling uses more aggressive approach.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Now, I disagree with KFW that this makes it less things to practice.

If you

- let your girl to take you to the Macy's store, you will spend a lot of money.
- take your girl to the Dollar store, you won't.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Long-winded way to talk about ippon drills versus jiyu drills, I think.

 

[skribs]

If you

- let your girl to take you to the Macy's store, you will spend a lot of money.
- take your girl to the Dollar store, you won't.

First off, don't date, then you don't have to worry about her spending all your money.

Second...my point is that you can train to deal with any attack an enemy will throw at you, or you can train to deal with your enemy's counters to any attack you throw at them. Unless you only plan to use 3 or 4 attacks, the list of things you will throw at him for him to counter is going to be just as large as the other way around.

So it's more like "I wash the dishes and you dry them" vs. "I dry the dishes and you wash them".