For those of you who want to learn how to fight outside of sport:

[GreenieMeanie]

Good. Because I would gate for you to have any useful information on the current state of military combatives training.


But for everyone else.

This seems to be much closer to the state of play these days.

Combined with a much greater influx of really good practitioners. Like flying in UFC fighters and the like.

Is that sarcasm? If you've got a problem with me, then be direct.

I don't know if you picked up on it or not, but we were speaking to US military combatives. I know little to nothing about what they teach in other countries.

 

[drop bear]

Is that sarcasm? If you've got a problem with me, then be direct.

I don't know if you picked up on it or not, but we were speaking to US military combatives. I know little to nothing about what they teach in other countries.

Cool your jets turbo.

Then go have a look at the second video.

Or look at this one.

So now we have two countries and 3 different services of the military all leaning in the same direction. Which is getting closer and closer to sport combatives.

Where MCMAP. That was possibly the first to sort of play with this idea. Did some did some sketchy stuff back in the beginning. Rolling knee bars and one handed guard passes and random stuff

Much less polished.

And if you have spent time around combat sports. After a while you realize there are methods that give you bang for buck. And methods that give you less bang for buck.

And combat sports generally have this system polished incredibly well. Because they are training people watching them fight then training the next people and so on


So you will find combatives will lean even more heavily towards combat sport methodology.

 

[drop bear]

So the military is mostly doing sport these days.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Cool your jets turbo.

Then go have a look at the second video.

I'm calmly giving you an opportunity to be direct. You are the one who has choosen to enter the discussion with passive aggression.

Yes--they cover it, but from what servicemen have told me, their interest is making soldiers remotely competent fighters, not experts.

To my point--I'm only seeing strict MMA here, with absolutely no weapons-work (retention, blades, etc.) or exposure to dirty fighting methods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfZ0MTmlPlk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdzUJM2Cc9c

 

[drop bear]

I'm calmly giving you an opportunity to be direct. You are the one who has choosen to enter the discussion with passive aggression.

Yes--they cover it, but from what servicemen have told me, their interest is making soldiers remotely competent fighters, not experts.

To my point--I'm only seeing strict MMA here, with absolutely no weapons-work (retention, blades, etc.) or exposure to dirty fighting methods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfZ0MTmlPlk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdzUJM2Cc9c

Yes that is what you will see as it is about the most efficient way to teach someone to defend themselves.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

So the military is mostly doing sport these days.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Yes that is what you will see as it is about the most efficient way to teach someone to defend themselves.

I've never claimed it's bad for that purpose--only that it's incomplete.

 

[drop bear]

And these are actual military units training this?

Or are these what is called the camo pants brigade

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Cool your jets turbo.

Then go have a look at the second video.

Or look at this one.

So now we have two countries and 3 different services of the military all leaning in the same direction. Which is getting closer and closer to sport combatives.

Where MCMAP. That was possibly the first to sort of play with this idea. Did some did some sketchy stuff back in the beginning. Rolling knee bars and one handed guard passes and random stuff

Much less polished.

And if you have spent time around combat sports. After a while you realize there are methods that give you bang for buck. And methods that give you less bang for buck.

And combat sports generally have this system polished incredibly well. Because they are training people watching them fight then training the next people and so on


So you will find combatives will lean even more heavily towards combat sport methodology.

I have never contested any of this. I don't know you didn't actually read the thread, or if you're just looking for a fight.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

And these are actual military units training this?

Or are these what is called the camo pants brigade

Top video is Korean UDT.

Bottom video is former IDF and SF doing what essentially a promo, for a training company in the US.

 

[drop bear]

I've never claimed it's bad for that purpose--only that it's incomplete.

Yes and no. Being able to fight is far more effective than knowledge of fighting. Even if that knowledge is specific.

This is where RSBD fundamentally falls apart.

 

[drop bear]

Top video is Korean UDT.

Bottom video is former IDF and SF doing what essentially a promo, for a training company in the US.

Yeah. The bottom video as you describe it is camo pants. So it is guys selling a system that is not really used by the military but sounds kind of military for a Civilian market.

It is this kind of work around people do.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Yes and no. Being able to fight is far more effective than knowledge of fighting. Even if that knowledge is specific.

This is where RSBD fundamentally falls apart.

We actually discussed this in a different thread--and you never responded. Which leads me to believe, that you are looking for a fight.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Yeah. The bottom video as you describe it is camo pants. So it is guys selling a system that is not really used by the military but sounds kind of military for a Civilian market.

It is this kind of work around people do.

You do realize, that when you're room clearing, people grabbing your gun is a legitimate potential problem--and there are specific ways you have to respond to that.

 

[drop bear]

HAHAHA!

You do realize, that when you're room clearing, people grabbing your gun is a legitimate potential problem--and there are specific ways you have to respond to that.

Yes.

Choke them out. Pretty much.

https://www.news.com.au/national/diggers-defend-killer-commando-who-strangled-taliban-commander/news-story/c94fc2c50bad257fcfbba41e81af714a

Jocko also has pretty much the same experience.

He was doing exactly those drills and everyone was trying to use SCARS and obviously failing. And a wrestler came in and cleaned house.

He says it in an interview somewhere. I will see if I can find it.

But basically it was the difference between what combatives should do. And what happens when someone fights back.

 

[drop bear]

We actually discussed this in a different thread--and you never responded. Which leads me to believe, that you are looking for a

Seems like a pretty high expectation for me to respond to all threads.

How about we just deal with this discussion in this thread.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Yes.

Choke them out. Pretty much.

https://www.news.com.au/national/diggers-defend-killer-commando-who-strangled-taliban-commander/news-story/c94fc2c50bad257fcfbba41e81af714a

Jocko also has pretty much the same experience.

Yes.

Choke them out. Pretty much.

https://www.news.com.au/national/diggers-defend-killer-commando-who-strangled-taliban-commander/news-story/c94fc2c50bad257fcfbba41e81af714a

Jocko also has pretty much the same experience.

He was doing exactly those drills and everyone was trying to use SCARS and obviously failing. And a wrestler came in and cleaned house.

He says it in an interview somewhere. I will see if I can find it.

But basically it was the difference between what combatives should do. And what happens when someone fights back.

I posted that as an example. There is more than one technique--pulling it back, shooting while doing so, dropping it and pulling a sidearm, stabbing them, etc.

You focus in on "camo brigade" and the one gun retention video, and completely ignore everything else.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Seems like a pretty high expectation for me to respond to all threads.

How about we just deal with this discussion in this thread.

Seems like a pretty high expectation for me to respond to all threads.

How about we just deal with this discussion in this thread.

Who are the best instructors right now in combatives, weaponology, retention, blade work, and counter-abduction?

Ed Calderon? Kelly McCann? Lee Morison? Fred Mastro? Jarrad Arbuckle? Terry Trehan? Karl OscarDelta? Craig Douglas? Scott Babb? Nigel February? Luke Holloway?

www.martialtalk.com

 

[drop bear]

Who are the best instructors right now in combatives, weaponology, retention, blade work, and counter-abduction?

Ed Calderon? Kelly McCann? Lee Morison? Fred Mastro? Jarrad Arbuckle? Terry Trehan? Karl OscarDelta? Craig Douglas? Scott Babb? Nigel February? Luke Holloway?

www.martialtalk.com

I did respond to that thread.

And it was the same response.

 

[drop bear]

I posted that as an example. There is more than one technique--pulling it back, shooting while doing so, dropping it and pulling a sidearm, stabbing them, etc.

You focus in on "camo brigade" and the one gun retention video, and completely ignore everything else.

That's fine. But it isn’t really what is being taught to the military. It is military guys selling their own system.