Florida Girl Found Dead By Sex Offender

[Feisty Mouse]

(sidenote, not meant as thread gank)

I love seeing robertson and tgace chat and, I think, agree! I get warm fuzzies.

 

[Tgace]

(sidenote, not meant as thread gank)

I love seeing robertson and tgace chat and, I think, agree! I get warm fuzzies.

Waiting for the earthquake, eclipse and the third Angel to pour forth his bowl of fire upon the earth?

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Naw! Just basking in the warm glowing warming glow.

 

[kenpo tiger]

Robert did prison time?

The idol has clay feet?

Robert and Tgace chatting?

What is this world coming to?!:idunno:

 

[Tgace]

Robert did prison time?

Well, to be fair, he only said he's "been in" a prison (could have been teaching). Not that he "did time". But the mind does wander.....

 

[kenpo tiger]

And the legend continues...

Tune in next week for more thrilling tales of yesteryear... quick - wherezat from?

 

[sgtmac_46]

According to whom? Please cite a source for this claim. It's important that we ascertain the validity of your assertion here, as the justification for your belief that all sex offenders who kill ought ot be executed relies on the validity of the proposition that they are premeditating the kill.

First, lets imagine a scenario where a sex offender purposely decides to molest a child, then "accidentally" kills the child. Even if we believed they did "accidentally" kill the child while molesting them, do any of us but a select few care if it was accidental or not? I certainly don't. The fact that the act occurred as a result of that person sexually assaulting a child is enough for me to put the rope around their neck and pull. I don't care whether he planned on murdering the child BEFORE the sexual assault, or just thought it up afterwards to avoid being caught, I don't see how that effects societies decision to have him do the hangman's jig.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Personally, I wouldn't care if they get the needle, but I have to wonder if by taking the criminal's life ourselves, if it makes us better than him? On the other end, I think prisons today are becoming almost like luxurious hotels for criminals. TV's and movie nights? Education? Playing sports outside? Eating 5 stars food? I don't think so! Specially when we know who pay for all that...the rest of us! Prison shouldn't be a safe haven for the killers, rapists, etc. it should be a place where it's hard to live, where it's no fun and where you actually have to live to REGRET what you have done to someone else.

It's also expensive. A rope and gallows costs very little. Money spent on maximum security prisons would be better spent in communities to keep kids out of prisons, medical research, roads, schools, etc.

Hang a murder, spend the money in the community. It's the ultimate rehab, the recidivism rate is 0%.

 

[Drac]

NAAAWWW!
Don't give him the death penalty.
He should get life...in a regular old run of the mill maximum security prison and they should put him in general population.
THEN...Bubba and his 39 siblings can let him know what that little girl was feeling right up to the very end. 20 or 30 times over til............

Couldn't have said it better myself...

 

[Loki]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/25/florida.girl/

The suspected sex offender confessed recreantly that he killed the girl, after lying for a few days.

I really hope this man dies. SUFFERS AND DIES! Sorry if that sounds harsh or offensive to anyone, but death is what all criminals should get. However today the justice system has gotten so soft, it is no wonder the US has one of the most numbers of prisoners in jail in the world.

...

Do you think this man should get DEATH?

Have you seen "The Life of David Gale"?

To take it to the capital punishment argument (momentarily, of course), I'd say it's generally a bad public policy idea, so it shouldn't apply to anyone.

Morally speaking, at the level of individual justice, I don't feel we have enough information to judge, information being the article and your claim he confessed. There are alternate scenarios to his being a cold-blooded rapist-killer. He's committed a hideous crime, and no doubt deserves to be punished, but killers are rarely the monsters we make them out to be. Adolf Eichmann disappointed many people who tried to show him as an inhuman monster by proving to be an exceptionally ordinary person. Same goes for Rudolph Hess.

A lot of people fear criminals will use the temporary insanity defense, but that works about 1% of the time, and when it does, they're committed to an asylum, which can be far worse than prison.

For a better understanding of evil and why these behaviors occur, I suggest Lyall Watson's "Dark Nature". Great read.

~ Loki

 

[Seig]

Monster or no, if someone murders someone during the commission of a sexual assault, the death penalty is what they deserve in my opinion.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Have you seen "The Life of David Gale"?

To take it to the capital punishment argument (momentarily, of course), I'd say it's generally a bad public policy idea, so it shouldn't apply to anyone.

Morally speaking, at the level of individual justice, I don't feel we have enough information to judge, information being the article and your claim he confessed. There are alternate scenarios to his being a cold-blooded rapist-killer. He's committed a hideous crime, and no doubt deserves to be punished, but killers are rarely the monsters we make them out to be. Adolf Eichmann disappointed many people who tried to show him as an inhuman monster by proving to be an exceptionally ordinary person. Same goes for Rudolph Hess.

A lot of people fear criminals will use the temporary insanity defense, but that works about 1% of the time, and when it does, they're committed to an asylum, which can be far worse than prison.

For a better understanding of evil and why these behaviors occur, I suggest Lyall Watson's "Dark Nature". Great read.

~ Loki

I wasn't impressed by the Life of David Gale. It was a simple strawman argument of a movie, and it didn't address the issue, it attempted to pull a fast one on the issue. I'm waiting for a truly honest thought provoking movie on the death penalty that deals with the real issue from both sides, not tries to cleverly stack the deck by being dishonest. It can be done. American History X was an honest and thought provoking movie about racism in America, and it did so without being disingenous.

As for what is a monster? A monster is what a monster does...like rape and murder little girls. He should have his neck stretched.

 

[Flatlander]

First, lets imagine a scenario where a sex offender purposely decides to molest a child, then "accidentally" kills the child. Even if we believed they did "accidentally" kill the child while molesting them, do any of us but a select few care if it was accidental or not? I certainly don't. The fact that the act occurred as a result of that person sexually assaulting a child is enough for me to put the rope around their neck and pull. I don't care whether he planned on murdering the child BEFORE the sexual assault, or just thought it up afterwards to avoid being caught, I don't see how that effects societies decision to have him do the hangman's jig.

I suppose that would depend upon whether your interest was in applying the law as it is, or having it changed. As it is, there is no capital punishment provision for non-premeditated murder. This was my point.

 

[Tgace]

But in a situation such as this. This guy didnt spontaneously walk into another persons home, happen to find a little girl there and on the spur of the moment decide to do what he did. This guy knew this girl was there and planned what he did....

 

[Loki]

I wasn't impressed by the Life of David Gale. It was a simple strawman argument of a movie, and it didn't address the issue, it attempted to pull a fast one on the issue. I'm waiting for a truly honest thought provoking movie on the death penalty that deals with the real issue from both sides, not tries to cleverly stack the deck by being dishonest. It can be done. American History X was an honest and thought provoking movie about racism in America, and it did so without being disingenous.

As for what is a monster? A monster is what a monster does...like rape and murder little girls. He should have his neck stretched.

Know the saying "Better to release 10 guilty men than to imprison one innocent man"? Makes it all more severe with death on the line.

A monster is what a monster does? I don't think so. Look soley at actions is like saying that 1st and 2nd degree murder, manslaughter and self-defense are all the same.

~ Loki

 

[sgtmac_46]

Know the saying "Better to release 10 guilty men than to imprison one innocent man"? Makes it all more severe with death on the line.

A monster is what a monster does? I don't think so. Look soley at actions is like saying that 1st and 2nd degree murder, manslaughter and self-defense are all the same.

~ Loki

First of all, no one said anything about imprisoning an innocent man. Guilt in this case is not in question, merely the punishment, so that is a bit of a strawman argument.

Second, nothing you said challenges my statement "A monster is what a monster does". You simply listed different acts. Your argument would only apply if all those acts were the same, which they are not. A large line exists between 1st degree murder and self-defense. If you commit 1st degree murder, you are a murderer (and a monster, according to the argument). If you committed an act of self-defense, you are a not a murderer. So your argument is moot and another strawman.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I suppose that would depend upon whether your interest was in applying the law as it is, or having it changed. As it is, there is no capital punishment provision for non-premeditated murder. This was my point.

You're mistaken as to the application of the law. The murder was committed as a result of a premediated act. He wasn't just wandering through the girls bedroom and thought "wow, think i'll kidnap her". So we have prima facia evidence of premediation. The state does not have to prove, at this point, that he committed the murder as a spontaneous act. It is evidence enough that he planned the kidnapping (Which only has to consist of carrying it out, in this case). After kidnapping the girl, it's all irrelavent, because the act that led to her death was in no way spontaneous. Premediation isn't an issue in this case. The issue that would make it a capital offense is really about this being act that would shock the concience (which no sane person would dispute) and whether the murder was committed with factors that would aggravate cirumstances (the sexual assault). None of this is in dispute.

 

[Flatlander]

OK, thanks. I actually didn't know that.

So, to be clear, then, it is not required that the homicide itself be premeditated, rather, the fact that it was committed in connection to another premeditated act is sufficient to warrant capital punishment. Is that correct?

 

[Tgace]

Following are the crimes that fall under Capital Murder:

* Robbery and Murder
* Two or more murders at one time
* Rape and Murder
* Kidnapping and Murder
* The Murder of a Child under the age of six
* Car-jacking and Murder [Federal]
* Murder of a Police Officer while in the official course of duty
* Serial Killings
* Murder for Hire [note: The Hitman and person who paid him will be charged and tried for Capital Murder and the death penalty should the state's attorney choose to do so]
* Arson Causing Death

 

[heretic888]

Call me crazy....

but, I just personally happen to think that murdering another human being --- even when we call it nice little labels like "capital punishment" or "state execution" so we don't have to worry about what it really is ---- for any reason other than self-protection or protection of others...

... is just wrong.