Fighting and Self Defence are two different things.

[Buka]

You misunderstood my comment, which wasn't about Boxers being the final litmus test. It was more about how a trained fighter can just use only their jab and footwork to demonstrate and destroy most Self Defense people, who never spar hard, let alone fought before. It's just, USUALLY, really easy to light up people who only train against this guy:

You're right, I did misunderstand. I thought you meant against Muay Thai guys and the like. My bad. I do that a lot, it seems.

But that Bob guy above......he does look kind of formidable.

As for "hocus pocus" describing what anyone does, that's less than open minded and probably disrespectful. Besides, who cares what anyone else does? I don't. People I train with don't. And I don't think Bob does.

 

[ballen0351]

Early UFC's had no disqualifying rules. You can literally do whatever you wanted in the fight, and win the $60,000 grand prize at then end of the night. And $60,000 was a hell of a lot of money in 1993, especially for classical Martial Artists whatever, who probably made like $10,000-20,000/year, mostly from peddling instructional VHS tapes at seminars where less than 10 people usually attends. Unfortunately, Royce Gracie mopped the floor with most of them, despite their trying anti-rape moves, such as trying to eye gouge Royce.

Wow your so right what was I thinking. Of course nothing else will work besides the amazing Gracie JJ. Well guys time to shut down the forums the answer has been here all along nothing more to discuss. Give up your anti-rape hocus pocus moves and find a Gracie

 

[drop bear]

Why IMAGINE your art at full strength when you can just not water it down?

Because watering down your art improves your basics.

So when I wrestle I don't punch this forces me to improve my wrestling. When I do mma I can then use the better wrestling to punch people more effectively.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, but that argument works both ways. As someone who's trained a lot of boxing, and trained in an old school boxing gym as a full contact Karate fighter and boxer and kickboxer, by my boxing trainers, boxers are easy if they're only boxers and we're using Martial rules. (The reason we trained there is they had a ring we didn't.)

Boxers really don't like nor understand getting swept, thrown, kicked hard in the legs or getting into a clinch with someone familiar with boxing clinches, Muay Thai plums, double underhooks or getting your head to the same side as your underhook when you have one underhook and one over.

It sure is fun when you show them, though

This move towards subtractions. You don't worry about boxing because you can kick. If you neglect your hand skills then you are limiting your range.

 

[drop bear]

No it doesnt

Nobody has argued anything even remotely close to this so Im not sure where your getting it

No, skills are a small portion

Then how do people with no training do it every day

Okay.

OP is arguing it.

Skills are a large portion of it. Fighting skill may not be.

Because self defence is generally not all that hard. It is just risky.

 

[drop bear]

The best way to find out if what hocus pocus that you're training, works, is to spar it out. Just buy a groupon or a block of classes at some Krav Maga school, Tactical Camou Fighter, Inc. or whatever, and spar them. A decent amateur Boxer can usually just use ONLY their jab and footwork to destroy most of them. If you can't get pass a Boxer's jab, how will you ever do your death strikes on them w/o getting KTFO? There's a good reason why it's usually only women, old folks, and weaker dudes, that usually trains SD only. The good news is, there are some good looking women there.

The common denominator there is people who either forget don't bother with or don't understand the basics. And so have to constantly come up with a work around. That subtraction.

I know plenty of self defence focused guys who also jump into competition and do well. it can be done. There are just excuses made by those who don't.

That is not just a self defence thing. That is also why the quote "position before submission" gets used.

 

[ballen0351]

OP is arguing it.

no he's not

Skills are a large portion of it. Fighting skill may not be.

correct fighting skills are very small part which is why the ring has little to do with self defense

Because self defence is generally not all that hard. It is just risky.

I agree to a point. It's definitely mentally hard

 

[drop bear]

no he's not
correct fighting skills are very small part which is why the ring has little to do with self defenseI

agree to a point

It's definitely mentally hard

You are arguing subtractions. Ring fighting has little to do with self defence.

Where for me ring fighting is important to self defence. But so are other skills. Additions.

 

[ballen0351]

You are arguing subtractions. Ring fighting has little to do with self defence.

and your arguing in catch phrases and bumper sticker slogans

Where for me ring fighting is important to self defence. But so are other skills. Additions.

exept fighting as you said yourself isn't that important self defense is easy remember so your far better working on the other skills

 

[Hanzou]

If anyone can roll up on you and beat the living crap out of you, how good is your self defense?

 

[jks9199]

Gentlefolk,
Lest we have to lock yet another thread over this, and award still more infraction points, let me strongly and clearly caution you to keep the conversation polite and respectful. You're welcome to hold strong opinions, and to express them. Don't be asshats about it.

jks9199
Administrator

 

[ballen0351]

If anyone can roll up on you and beat the living crap out of you, how good is your self defense?

depends on situation was he going to blow your head off but you got the gun and disabled it so you only took a beat down well that's a win in my book

 

[drop bear]

and your arguing in catch phrases and bumper sticker slogans
exept fighting as you said yourself isn't that important self defense is easy remember so your far better working on the other skills

It is situational. if someone is attacking me then fighting can be very important.

This is the fun thing about self defence is i can give importance to whatever i want. And validate any method with it.

 

[drop bear]

depends on situation was he going to blow your head off but you got the gun and disabled it so you only took a beat down well that's a win in my book

I thought you did not like my elephant scenarios.

 

[ballen0351]

I thought you did not like my elephant scenarios.

so people have never disarmed soneind during an armed robbery? Because it happens more often then you think. I personally know Latin grocery store clerk that got beat down badly by an armed robber and right when the robber put the gun to his head he was able to knock it away it slid under a freezer. He got kicked in the head a few more times then the robber ran off but he's still alive. I've never seen an elephant outside of the zoo.... so yeah I don't like your eelephant story

 

[ballen0351]

It is situational. if someone is attacking me then fighting can be very important.

sure it can be but it might not be

This is the fun thing about self defence is i can give importance to whatever i want. And validate any method with it.

no when validating self defense there is only 1 test. Did you live

 

[FriedRice]

The common denominator there is people who either forget don't bother with or don't understand the basics. And so have to constantly come up with a work around. That subtraction.

I know plenty of self defence focused guys who also jump into competition and do well. it can be done. There are just excuses made by those who don't.

That is not just a self defence thing. That is also why the quote "position before submission" gets used.

Not plenty, there are some, SD people who do fight. But most of them switch to MMA or such because most SD programs are way too soft and they need better fight training, otherwise they get destroyed on fight day. SD programs, in general, are geared mostly for women, softer dudes and the elderly.

 

[FriedRice]

Wow your so right what was I thinking. Of course nothing else will work besides the amazing Gracie JJ. Well guys time to shut down the forums the answer has been here all along nothing more to discuss. Give up your anti-rape hocus pocus moves and find a Gracie

And go easy on the donuts.

 

[ballen0351]

And go easy on the donuts.

POWER RINGS.

 

[Buka]

If anyone can roll up on you and beat the living crap out of you, how good is your self defense?

"Anyone" ain't gonna happen. But we all seem to gravitate towards those better than us, instructors and sparring partners alike. Heck, we all need a good *** whoopin' from time to time, no?