Few techniques to beat many...

[PiedmontChun]

You had a "few weeks" of Ving Tsun and consequently you have your mind made up so my (rhetorical) question is valid. By this you seem convinced you have nothing to learn or gain from WC / WT / VT so why is anyone here going to argue with you and try and convince you otherwise?

Personally, I would never go to a forum for an art I had minimal hands on experience with and act as if it was their job to prove to me their system's concepts or methods were effective. Its just bad form.

Back to Geezer's original post, I am still amazed at the efficient simplicity of a single vertical fist punch being employed in different ways, whether with low elbow force to subdue /collapse an incoming punch from the outside, locking the elbow out to wedge out an incoming punch from the inside, using initial punch as wedge or to create space before replacing with the next punch.

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

Well look at the title of the topic, "few techniques to beat them many....", I proved for myself many but not all

Also, I was under the impression that this was a discussion forum, not a holding-hands meeting place...

Maybe I was wrong

And remember it's all personal experiences

The only thing you "proved" was that those particular guys couldn't handle what you threw at them.

 

[Marnetmar]

WC circlejerk incoming!

It's a joke, please don't hurt me

 

[jks9199]

Folks,

It's one thing to discuss the relative merits of an art or school. Or to discuss your personal experience and compare and contrast it with another style... But we want to keep things respectful, too. We all know someone in our own chosen art who we'd rather keep well out of sight, no? One experience doesn't describe everyone in the art...

 

[Punchy]

I'm fine with all the WC bashing.
The way I see it, let us keep flying under the radar and let people underestimate us.
That's just a few less people I have to be concerned about in a physical encounter.

 

[Thunder Foot]

Not to continue to derail, I think the biggest issue when it comes to testing Wing Chun is folks limited view of what the art is. Like Piedmont said, most already have their mind made up about the art's effectiveness. So when you do get someone who has answers for these techniques "outside of Wing Chun" as people like to call it, they want to say that it's NOT WC. Hook punch, hook kick, or a lack of complicated trapping among others. Someone lands an upper and suddenly is not using Wing Chun. I think a broader spectrum of view would help all on both sides of the fence.

Back to simplifying things, the vertical fist fits into many more holes that the horizontal fist may not. It's harder to detect due to the orientation of the fist. It's structurally stronger for Wing Chun due to the WC structure. But it depends on the height of the target we are hitting. Lower punching targets have different hand positions. Simplifying is punching in response to the target presented.

 

[Vajramusti]

The school that I tried was from Wong Shun Leung lineage.

The concepts are good, but I never seen them work properly in execution.

I also "tested" some seniors at that school and for most things I threw at them they didn't had an answer, now they were very good VT/WC practitioners, but only against untrained people or fellow practitioners.

So yes it's a very nice art on paper until someone else proves me wrong.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
`. Pointless to debate your views,
2, Name dropping does not mean much
3. Your observations on wing chun concepts are quite general
4.dont know you or your "seniors' in your anecdote
5 why would someone be interested in proving something?
6 Not sure why you are posting.

 

[geezer]

:lol2:

I think a broader spectrum of view would help all on both sides of the fence. ...the vertical fist fits into many more holes that the horizontal fist may not.

Honestly I try to be open-minded and tolerate an ...er ..."broad-spectrum" as you put it, but what you said above ...just sounds wrong! :lol2:

 

[Dylan9d]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
`. Pointless to debate your views,
2, Name dropping does not mean much
3. Your observations on wing chun concepts are quite general
4.dont know you or your "seniors' in your anecdote
5 why would someone be interested in proving something?
6 Not sure why you are posting.

1. really, thought this was a discussion forum
2. well for most WC practitioners lineage is everything
3. search YT for Wing Chun, you will see dozens of movies about a WC guy getting his teeth kicked in, and according to all the WC "experts" here they are probably doing it wrong
5. maybe some people want to know if it really works in a streetfight, clearly WC doesn't
6. see point 1

Like i said for me this topic was already done but people clearly need to state their opinion on my criticism so ill keep responding accordingly
Have fun with Wing Chun

 

[mograph]

... the vertical fist fits into many more holes that the horizontal fist may not.

Yes, it's hard not to fixate on this phrase.

Looking for the right emoticon ... naah.

 

[KPM]

5. maybe some people want to know if it really works in a streetfight, clearly WC doesn't

I'd love to see all the various videos of that you have of Silat working in a streetfight. Please post them!

 

[Dylan9d]

I'd love to see all the various videos of that you have of Silat working in a streetfight. Please post them!

Thought this was a WC topic? If you want to see some techniques that most likely would work on the streets just check youtube dude, i don't need to prove anything about Silat, you on the other hand with your experimental video's clearly do....

 

[KPM]

Thought this was a WC topic? If you want to see some techniques that most likely would work on the streets just check youtube dude, i don't need to prove anything about Silat, you on the other hand with your experimental video's clearly do....

I don't need to check youtube for Silat, because I have trained it personally myself. And yes, it is good stuff! But so is the Wing Chun I have trained personally! You are basing your opinion of Wing Chun on a limited encounter with one group of questionable skill and a few youtube videos. My point was that if you were to base an opinion on Silat strictly on a bunch of youtube videos one could reach a negative impression as well. So to continue to come to a Wing Chun forum simply to slam Wing Chun is just asking for trouble. Don't you think?

 

[Punchy]

Thought this was a WC topic? If you want to see some techniques that most likely would work on the streets just check youtube dude, i don't need to prove anything about Silat, you on the other hand with your experimental video's clearly do....

No one here feels the need to prove anything. Many on this forum are accomplished martial arts practitioners, some with decades of experience.
WC is the art we chose and what we love. we love it for its outward simplicity, its subtle artistry, its inner depth...for a whole host of reasons. But one reason we who frequent this forum can all agree on is its effectiveness.
We don't believe it to be effective because of stories and legends, or because our sifu says so. It's effective because we know it's effective because we've proven it to ourselves and others countless times.

You choose to think otherwise, that's fine. Coming on here and making gratuitous or anecdotal statements that WC doesn't work is not a discussion. It's looking for an argument.

So either discuss or go away and leave us poor diluted wing chunners to wallow in our ignorance.

 

[Danny T]

I did Ving Tsun for a couple of weeks now but coming from a Indonesian martial arts background, it couldn't teach me that much anymore, I realised that all the principles taught in VT are all present in the arts I practiced. So I decided to keep doing what I was doing before VT.

So VT is a beautiful simple art, but mostly very good against untrained or other VT practitioners.

Just looking to expand my knifework now, even though I did eskrima in the past I feel that's one area that's not so good yet

The school that I tried was from Wong Shun Leung lineage.

The concepts are good, but I never seen them work properly in execution.

I also "tested" some seniors at that school and for most things I threw at them they didn't had an answer, now they were very good VT/WC practitioners, but only against untrained people or fellow practitioners.

So yes it's a very nice art on paper until someone else proves me wrong.

1. really, thought this was a discussion forum
2. well for most WC practitioners lineage is everything
3. search YT for Wing Chun, you will see dozens of movies about a WC guy getting his teeth kicked in, and according to all the WC "experts" here they are probably doing it wrong

5. maybe some people want to know if it really works in a streetfight, clearly WC [FONT=&quot]doesn't[/FONT]6. see point 1

Like i said for me this topic was already done but people clearly need to state their opinion on my criticism so ill keep responding accordingly
Have fun with Wing Chun

Thought this was a WC topic? If you want to see some techniques that most likely would work on the streets just check youtube dude, i don't need to prove anything about Silat, you on the other hand with your experimental video's clearly do....

Ok you don’t like wing chun. Got it. You are unable to function with it.
I have trained silat. (Pak Herman Suwanda about 3 years) good stuff. When I first met and trained with him he didn’t believe I had never trained silat prior to meeting him. My training Wing Chun. Was fansinated with how effective it was. I also train and instruct Muay Thai and Pekiti-Tirsia Kali. All very good and effective systems for what they do and I still go back to wing chun. Why? Because it is simple, direct, and effective, For Me.

Oh and I don’t need to prove it or anything else to anyone; only to me; little old Danny T. :wavey:

 

[Argus]

Dylan, I'll be straight forward. Forgive me; I'm a WC guy, after all.

Your statements exude arrogance, bias, and willful ignorance. Now, I say this with good intent, and as sincere advice: You don't know half of what you think you do. Empty your cup. Stop judging things you don't understand. Experience is not the best teacher; it can lead us to false assumptions, misconceptions, an inflated ego, and a closed mind. Instead, empty your cup. Be humble and open-minded above all else. Otherwise, you'll never even know how much you don't know, yet alone know as much as you think you do.

 

[geezer]

Dylan, I'll be straight forward. Forgive me; I'm a WC guy, after all.

Your statements exude arrogance, bias, and willful ignorance. Now, I say this with good intent...

Argus, you are hilarious! Reminds me of really old Saturday Night Live, "Jane, you ignorant sluht!" And you say it with such kindness and good intent.

Nevermind that I might agree with you, but just let him go. What do we care what uninformed people think. Now let's get this thread back on track. I can think of numerous examples of a simple technique that short circuit a variety of attacks. And this applies to other systems besides WC as well. I'd be open to people sharing from other styles. I mean this is a concept-oriented topic. And good concepts are somewhat universal.

 

[Punchy]

Back when I was first learning chi sau, my training brothers and I would inevitably hit stumbling blocks trying to figure things out.
A motto we quickly developed whenever we caught ourselves chasing hands or overcomplicating the situation was "Just Punch".

It really does seem to take care of many if not most situations....fighting I mean, not in normal life.

Snooty waiter...Just Punch. Boss won't give you a raise?...Just Punch.....Not a good idea.

 

[futsaowingchun]

Dylan, I'll be straight forward. Forgive me; I'm a WC guy, after all.

Your statements exude arrogance, bias, and willful ignorance. Now, I say this with good intent, and as sincere advice: You don't know half of what you think you do. Empty your cup. Stop judging things you don't understand. Experience is not the best teacher; it can lead us to false assumptions, misconceptions, an inflated ego, and a closed mind. Instead, empty your cup. Be humble and open-minded above all else. Otherwise, you'll never even know how much you don't know, yet alone know as much as you think you do.

I would have to disagree about experience not being the best teacher.After you have a firm understanding of your art experience is what you need and only that experience can push you forward as a martial artist and for the art you represent. one example IMO is Wong Shun Leung. Without all his fighting exerience he would not be the man he was.

 

[Dylan9d]

Ok you don’t like wing chun. Got it. You are unable to function with it.
I have trained silat. (Pak Herman Suwanda about 3 years) good stuff. When I first met and trained with him he didn’t believe I had never trained silat prior to meeting him. My training Wing Chun. Was fansinated with how effective it was. I also train and instruct Muay Thai and Pekiti-Tirsia Kali. All very good and effective systems for what they do and I still go back to wing chun. Why? Because it is simple, direct, and effective, For Me.

Oh and I don’t need to prove it or anything else to anyone; only to me; little old Danny T. :wavey:

Ok now you are summing up all my replies, good, but what about the responses before that, this whole discussion started of with me posting my views on VT and in relation to the title of the topic, wich was also the reason i had nothing to find in the art of VT or WC. The point beeing that VT couldn't add anything to what i had learned already. I have still enough to learn in life and in martial arts because nobody is perfect. Hell im raising a 5 year old boy on my own, puts your right in your place and throws everything you know overboard

So you are showing a half picture here.

@Argus, your response really do tell me that you are not very experienced, really...."Experience is not the best teacher"