Question about my son and his taekwondo

[Blake Divin]

Problem with taekwondo my son is six after he learned the orange belt adult form he tested I started working on his taegeuk 3 with him he learned it with in about 3 weeks he then had to wait 5 weeks doing it over and over waiting for other kids he tested for his green tip in dec ,I did not work on it with him or let him practice at home untill mid January he learned the taegeuk 4 and then went to dallas taekwondo championships (he wanted to compete ) he took gold in breaking and bronze In form feb 1 now he has to do it over and over untill feb 22 and we had To ask to be able to belt test ( other kinds that do not know full form test they do a kids half form) also I feel like he doesn't get enough instruction so we had to use private lessons, doing his form every day with kids who are just learning and not as dedicated to tkd he is getting frustrated in class I just want some other opinions before I speak to his master

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Blake,

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

Before I get into this, I'm going to preface it by saying that I'm likely going to be a little blunt, so please don't take offence to that... but there's quite a bit leaping out at me here. Okay, here we go.

Your son is 6. I really don't want to burst too many bubbles here, but your son is 6. He's not 16. He's 6. Yes, he'll get bored and frustrated at times with repetitive training, going over the same forms again and again... but you know something? That's what martial arts are. It's the way you get good. It's the way you get skill. And he's six. No matter what you think of how serious he is compared with the other kids (he's not, for the record, he's enthusiastic and enjoys it, but he's not mature enough to be really serious about it yet... give it at least 5-10 years before he can be reasonably expected to make that kind of assessment, let alone you being able to), he's 6. It's a bit beyond a fun (for him) form of daycare. That's not a slight on the school, the instructor, your son, the training regime, the attendance of the classes, or anything, but it is a realistic appraisal of pretty much all martial arts training at that age. And private lessons? For a six-year old? What on earth for?

Don't try to live through your son. Don't be concerned with anything other than "Is he having fun there?" Don't be concerned about new belt tests unless it's something that he's interested in. Don't worry about the other kids in the class. Don't get too stressed on the amount of "personal attention" he's getting. Well done on his successes so far, but really, it doesn't mean anything other than his personal self esteem. You don't train in a martial art yourself, how are you working on his forms with him? Do you know them? Do you know how to critique them? Where he's doing them correctly, and where he isn't? My point there is that you're really not coming from a frame of reference to be able to assess what your son needs (in terms of learning Tae Kwon Do)... by all means, talk to his instructor, but be prepared to hear that he's doing fine, and yes, he just needs to keep going with that he's learnt already.

Oh, and just to make life easier for you here, I might suggest proof-reading your posts before posting them.... the lack of punctuation in this one makes it almost impossible to read. Remember that we're dealing with a largely text-only format here... so proper grammar, punctuation, spelling etc all just make it much easier for you to get the answers you're looking for.

 

[Blake Divin]

I will start by apologizing about the way the post was written. I cut if from my phone and did not read it I just typed it. Next I will address the statement about me living through him what he does is all his choice. Some kids like baseball or football video games ect my son likes tae kwon do . He is home schooled and goes to class 3-4 days a week for 45 min. He has 1 private lesson for 30 min a week .He wakes up and does his form on his own and I would say he does it 10-30 times a day anywhere he is . He also practices his kicks on his kicking bag about 15 min a day on his own.He asked to go to private lessons so he could learn more kicking (hook kick and tornado give him trouble).
i do not train but I do have video of his forms and yes I do know them correctly. I do have to help him like I said he asks to compete I do not make him.
The best way I can describe it is a honor student in normal classes he is way ahead because of his drive and the work he puts in on his own.
my son is not your normal 6 year old he volunteers at the animal shelter bathing dogs and had logged 50 hours and donated $500 he raised doing a lemon aid stand.
thank you you did help me answer my question his school is like a day care and that's what I thought I will find one with no after school care , and sorry but I am not very good at spelling ect .

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Blake,

Ha, understood on the punctuation and spelling... making an effort is more than some do, so thank you for that. It doesn't have to be perfect, obviously, but can help a lot.

Now, onto the rest. Your son is very enthusiastic, and enjoys TKD a lot. That's fantastic, and absolutely should be supported. You have nothing but support for that here. But any school, when dealing with 6 year olds, is daycare (realistically). And honestly, if it wasn't (if it was more "serious" training), he'd probably hate it. For now, your main job is to encourage and support his enthusiasm... but that's really about it. It's more important that he's enjoying it than anything else. To be blunt, I don't know of any parent who doesn't think their child is different to all the others... what you've shown me is a particular set of values that he has (most likely taken from yourself and his mother, so you are to be commended on that), which are great, and definitely show why he's approaching his TKD the way he is. Again, this is great, and I think his enthusiasm is great... but that's what it is.

Don't worry about any of the concerns you've had, unless your son is losing interest, in which case, talk to him about it, and talk to his instructor. You mentioned he's getting frustrated... okay, ask the instructor how to make it more interesting for him... maybe set up a reward system as he completes the repetitions he needs to do. But remember that that's designed to encourage and promote his enthusiasm... if he genuinely loses interest (can, and often does happen, particularly with children), fine. Let it go, and move onto something else.

Oh, but for the record, if you don't know his forms (videos are far from enough), you really can't necessarily correct them. You can perhaps remember sequences and help with some larger aspects, but there will be huge amounts of information in the forms that you simply don't know. If you do a search for video learning, you'll see why you can't say you know his forms based off of videos. Besides, it's up to him to know them, not you.

 

[Earl Weiss]

>>>>>>>>> his taegeuk 3 with him he learned it with in about 3 weeks he then had to wait 5 weeks doing it over and over waiting for other kids he tested for his green tip in dec <<<<<,>>>>>mid January he learned the taegeuk 4 and then went to dallas taekwondo championships (he wanted to compete ) he took gold in breaking and bronze In form feb 1 now he has to do it over and over untill feb 22 and we had To ask to be able to belt test<<<

If I read this correctly he learned a form in 3 weeks and practiced 5 more then Leaned another in Mid January for a 2/22 test?

Some forms are easier than others but I will say that having judged several International championships and many smaller competitions I found it rare if ever that even the world champion could not have improved on something. I submit that the time they spent on the form was many fold what your son put in and their abilities were likely far in excess of his as well.

When kids say something like "I know xxx " my response is "When do you not need to practice a technique any more? When you can punch, kick or block so fast I can't see it, then you don't need to practice any more".

 

[shesulsa]

Welcome Blake.

Please know that we endeavor to learn, share and educate here. Many people have difficulty really understanding the core purpose of echelon martial arts training ... and one thing that is easy to forget is that people come to martial arts for many reasons.

I'm not certain what you want for your son in this endeavor. He sounds extremely bright and very dedicated. I would suggest that if you feel your son is a martial arts prodigy that you seek full-time private instruction.

I feel strong responsibility to share with you, though, that rote memory is simply not enough. While it's great he remembers so quickly, his body and ability need to develop and mature in the hyungs and mist certainly in the techniques. Think about it: you and I learned to walk at around 1 year of age. Do you still walk like that? We walked a lot better at 2 ... but do you still walk like THAT? Likely not.

Your son will need to practice and train what he knows many, many, many times over. "I do not fear the man who has practiced 200 techniques five times; I fear the man who has practiced one technique a thousand times."

If your endeavor is to check black belt off a list of accomplishments for your son for his resumé or a series of goals you want him to achieve then you will likely always be disappointed in many of the goals as their achievement will be arbitrary if they do not have deep meaning - the wise man will know this.

My students - whether they train junior or adult curriculum - must demonstrate development of skill and knowledge of their material thusly: every third rank test they demonstrate all the material they know. They must coach their peers and mentor the underbelts and contribute to the learning patterns of the club.

Please be sure - for your and your son's sake - what the purpose of his training is and what that goal means to you and more importantly to him.

I also invite you to engage humility and egalitarianism in your son. Please never coach him that he is better than anyone else. I humbly offer that any opportunity afforded him will be better appreciated if he learns that he is responsible for his own growth and that talent is a small part of the equation.

Good luck to you and your son and welcome to MT.

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[Blake Divin]

Thanks for all replys, I have two schools in my area one has an after school program and mixes all belts where he has been attending. They play dodgeball and have fun. He loves to practice his form and does so all day it's waiting for other kids that don't know is where he complains to me.
the second school we looked at is very strict Korean military instructor only alike belts one up or down one day form one day spar ect I just don't want to take the fun out of it he wants to change schools but he is 6 so I have to make the decision

 

[shesulsa]

He may need lessons in patience and brotherhood. If he were my student I'd likely hold him back a little until he stopped complaining and started helping.

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[msmitht]

He may need lessons in patience and brotherhood. If he were my student I'd likely hold him back a little until he stopped complaining and started helping.

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Hold him back? I would offer more if his technique is good. Not promote him early but give him what he can take and see where it goes. As to the obsessive training outside the school I would seek to curb it a little. He might be reinforcing bad habits or mistakes. If his school can not offer enough look around for one that can.

 

[Blake Divin]

He may need lessons in patience and brotherhood. If he were my student I'd likely hold him back a little until he stopped complaining and started helping.

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He complained to me in private and they line them up for 5-10 min and have them do there form with an instructor I really don't know how he would help other than hold his form on count like he does

 

[Tames D]

Hold him back? I would offer more if his technique is good. Not promote him early but give him what he can take and see where it goes. As to the obsessive training outside the school I would seek to curb it a little. He might be reinforcing bad habits or mistakes. If his school can not offer enough look around for one that can.

I totally agree with this, msmitht
Welcome to Martial Talk, Blake. (a side note: We homeschool our kids also. It works for us)

 

[terryl965]

Blake I am in the DFW area, what school do you currently go to? I am my whole family ref. at the tournament you are talking about. All three of my sons was home school, my 16 year old just started college at TCCC and my oldest is on the Texas State TKD team. P.M. me if you would like o talk about options, I know every single instructor that teaches TKD and can learn my recommendation to you.

 

[Blake Divin]

Blake I am in the DFW area, what school do you currently go to? I am my whole family ref. at the tournament you are talking about. All three of my sons was home school, my 16 year old just started college at TCCC and my oldest is on the Texas State TKD team. P.M. me if you would like o talk about options, I know every single instructor that teaches TKD and can learn my recommendation to you.

sending a a pm to you thanks

 

[jks9199]

Your son's excited, and having fun. He's putting a lot into TKD right now. And you're suffering from what I'll call Lake Woebegone syndrome: everyone's kids are above average. (That's OK; I've got the same problem. My guy's almost 5, and smarter than any kid out there. Just ask me! )

Chris Parker had some valid points -- but so the others who are perhaps more supportive. You know your kid; you can see the schools. Talk to the instructors and masters at the school. If your not happy, look at others.

With regard to the "line and work it for 5 to 10 minutes"... Having taught a youngster's class in the past (and I won't do it again, because my temperament ain't suited to it!) -- that's probably MOST of the kids's attention span. Your son may be an exception... or may not. Discuss it with the teachers...

 

[Gnarlie]

Some thoughts on this:

1) He's six. Enthusiasm is great and should be encouraged, but it doesn't mean talent. Just because a child or parent sees the child as ahead of the group does not mean they are. What do his instructors have to say about his ability relative to others in the group?

2) Repetitive practice alone does not equal quality practice. I've seen the way six year olds practice forms, and there's little being gained there other than rote memorisation of the order of motions with fairly sloppy technique.

3) I would encourage your son to develop the qualities of patience and tolerance. Not everyone learns at the same rate. If he's bored, then he's not practicing the form properly. In those pauses he sees as 'waiting', there are things he should be checking and correcting. This is never not true regardless of the level, adult or child, champion or hobbyist.
4) Paying for private tuition for a six year old who already feels like he is too far ahead of the pack could be a waste of money unless you have an outlet where he can practice in a group of his peers.

5) The forms he is currently learning are the basic ones. After Taegeuk 3 the complexity level increases and therefore the time required to learn them. Simple or not, it takes thousands of repetitions to become truly competent at a form, and not only repetitions, but repetitions with deliberate conscious awareness and self-correction. This puts perspective on a few weeks of practice. Memorisation of the order of motions is only the first step on a very long road. A six year old doesn't have enough reference material in their life to date to really comprehend this point but an instructor can lead in the right direction. He needs to use his waiting time.

Gnarlie

 

[40th Alabama]

The only thing I could add is words of wisdom from my mom while I was growing up: "Take advantage of all training and education that you can get-it is something that no one can take away from you". As you and your son will learn later, practicing a specific form will not end at the next belt test-they will be revisited at every test he takes for as long as he stays in the martial arts. Unless it is your son's idea, let him progress at his own pace-don't force him into private lessons and advanced study. As someone mentioned above, at his age the main thing would be that he enjoys his training as you will be hard pressed to keep him in it as he grows older. Other things will start vying for his time (sports, girls, girls, and girls). Good luck, sounds like you have a well founded youngster-keep him that way if you can.

 

[arnisador]

We homeschooled our kids, and I trained my son in the martial arts as P.E.! At this age, he should be focusing on having fun and staying flexible. I personally don't believe you can develop much technique pre-puberty that will stand the test of time, though of course I've seen exceptions.