Explaining Kata/Forms to Those Who Don't Do Them

[ShotoNoob]

Shoto, my only question is whether or not your definition of a TMA isn't rather narrow, and perhaps based more specifically on your understanding of certain Okinawan and Japanese traditions? After all, TMA in general (Chinese, Japanese, Okinawan, Korean, Southeast Asian, Filipino, Malaysian, Indonesian, Indian, Nepali, Tibetan, Mongolian, etc., and of course. European, and others?...) are extremely diverse. I confess ignorance here, but from what I have encountered, it is unwise to make hard and fast assumptions about anything, including the function and relative importance of kata/forms ...assuming the the art even uses forms at all.

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And let me add, that my conceptual standard of what premises TMA is pretty high-level thinking... Not everyone is going to have my years of thinking or perhaps aptitude to do so....
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Many practitioners approach TMA as a sport, physical exercise... and this is why I favor Shotokan karate with its heavy physicality for these types of individuals///. Yet again, to be TMA, one must approach the mental side... which Shotokan does by forcing an aggressive, rigid, highly technical body mechanics & authoritative mindset into the physicality....
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As a final example, I find Ja Gow's sparring-heavy approach to Kung fu as sub-optimal by my understanding of TMA. For Ja Gow, his approach is working and providing TMA-level skills.... and his students are equally encouraged... So I confirmed this... and recommended that he NOT CHANGE anything about his current approach to kung fu.... continue on the path he is following...
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Having an understanding of TMA principles.... how these are practically applied to various style and practitioners is necessarily subjective...
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I believe that the vast majority of TMA practitioners, including the SD specialists here @ MT,,, the strict TMA model I am describing... is too challenging for the majority of students and everyday SD trainees... Again, the TMA model requires years of intensive MENTAL study to become a bona-fide black-belt...and mucho double-effort to get there That's always been a theme of my posts...
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So all, good luck with that..... and Kata is NOT necessary to become a good MMA competitor, good fighter, or good at self defense... Certainly the applied sport methods, and pragmatic self defense training will suffice....
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How's that for broad...??? Peace...

 

[ShotoNoob]

HERE'S MR. BACK FIST MISS., TKD BLACK-BELT IN HIS BLACK-BELT??? SPARRING TEST

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What are we learning here? Good sportsmanship... ie not clobbering our training / test partner... Yeah.
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Practicing some fighting/ competition skills.... Okay.
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Having a good time, enjoying what we are doing... For sure...
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Joining a club & making new friends.... Again, okay...
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Feeling a sense of accomplishment with our progression & belt ranks... Most definitely...
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Yet what standards of the Traditonal martial arts are being met.... What measures of traditonial TKD have been reached....
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Thread Audience: Can Subjectively alone adequately answer these questions?
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Peace.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I did not say any of the things you quote me as saying, my friend. I don't understand your use of the \ mark between lines, and I don't understand your comments after the quotes you attribute to me, although as I said, I did not make them.

 

[ShotoNoob]

I did not say any of the things you quote me as saying, my friend. I don't understand your use of the \ mark between lines, and I don't understand your comments after the quotes you attribute to me, although as I said, I did not make them.

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Yes you did....

 

[geezer]

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And let me add, that my conceptual standard of what premises TMA is pretty high-level thinking... Not everyone is going to have my years of thinking or perhaps aptitude to do so....

Excuse me, but the phrase "conceptual standard of what premises TMA" doesn't make sense to me. Is it a typo? Perhaps you meant "what comprises TMA"? Or perhaps it makes perfect sense and I just don't have the "aptitude" to follow your thinking here.

On the other hand, you use the term "mental" a lot in describing TMA. I must say that it's exactly the word that comes to mind when reading your posts. Perhaps, at least, we can all agree on that!

So, as you say, "peace" and "good luck with that".

 

[Koshiki]

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Yes you did....

In defense of Bill Mattocks, no he didn't. If you care to re-read the thread, quotes from other members, namely Geezer, have somehow been missattributed to Mr. Mattocks.

 

[geezer]

In defense of Bill Mattocks, no he didn't. If you care to re-read the thread, quotes from other members, namely Geezer, have somehow been missattributed to Mr. Mattocks.

Quite so.

 

[Flying Crane]

Excuse me, but the phrase "conceptual standard of what premises TMA" doesn't make sense to me. Is it a typo? Perhaps you meant "what comprises TMA"? Or perhaps it makes perfect sense and I just don't have the "aptitude" to follow your thinking here.

On the other hand, you use the term "mental" a lot in describing TMA. I must say that it's exactly the word that comes to mind when reading your posts. Perhaps, at least, we can all agree on that!

So, as you say, "peace" and "good luck with that".

I think perhaps he should look up that word. I think maybe it doesn't mean what he thinks it means.

 

[Tez3]

I don't understand your comments after the quotes you attribute to me, .

Frankly I don't understand most of what he writes, I think my English is pretty good, I've been writing and speaking it for six decades now, I can usually decipher even my dyslexic friend's writing but his posts manage to leave me stumped, so sorry I don't know what he meant either.

Thread Audience: Can Subjectively alone adequately answer these questions?

Ideas people? I don't want to mock just understand because there's reams of ShotoNoob's post on MT I simple don't understand.

Also I meant to say before...welcome back Bill.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Excuse me, but the phrase "conceptual standard of what premises TMA" doesn't make sense to me. Is it a typo? Perhaps you meant "what comprises TMA"? Or perhaps it makes perfect sense and I just don't have the "aptitude" to follow your thinking here.

On the other hand, you use the term "mental" a lot in describing TMA. I must say that it's exactly the word that comes to mind when reading your posts. Perhaps, at least, we can all agree on that!

So, as you say, "peace" and "good luck with that".

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Well, now can't I underline my points a little.... Guess not... Anyway, I threw the statement out there and not unsurprisingly, the ego storm erupted.... And 1-dimensional insults prove your point? Oh well.... the alternative to accept someone else's accomplishment it typically a challenge....

 

[ShotoNoob]

In defense of Bill Mattocks, no he didn't. If you care to re-read the thread, quotes from other members, namely Geezer, have somehow been missattributed to Mr. Mattocks.

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OK?

 

[ShotoNoob]

I think perhaps he should look up that word. I think maybe it doesn't mean what he thinks it means.

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Ok?

 

[geezer]

Ideas people? I don't want to mock just understand because there's reams of ShotoNoob's post on MT I simple don't understand.

You have a generous attitude Tez. I also have difficulty understanding a lot of what Shoto has posted. On another thread, tried asking politely for clarification, but did not get an helpful response. This latest remark about people "not having the aptitude" to understand the depth of his comprehension is a pretty typical of the responses he's given before when questioned. So I admit I succumbed to the temptation to tease a bit. No harm intended. Now I'm feeling a little guilty since I might have unwittingly hit the nail on the head.

 

[Flying Crane]

You have a generous attitude Tez. I also have difficulty understanding a lot of what Shoto has posted. On another thread, tried asking politely for clarification, but did not get an helpful response. This latest remark about people "not having the aptitude" to understand the depth of his comprehension is a pretty typical of the responses he's given before when questioned. So I admit I succumbed to the temptation to tease a bit. No harm intended. Now I'm feeling a little guilty since I might have unwittingly hit the nail on the head.

Don't feel guilty about it.

 

[Buka]

HERE'S MR. BACK FIST MISS., TKD BLACK-BELT IN HIS BLACK-BELT??? SPARRING TEST

Almost makes me cry.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Almost makes me cry.

ha ha ha.. not me. that big sign on the wall in the background "Black Belt School" tells me all that I need to know. This tells me even more

Everyday brain wash going on. "Be a black belt" and "Black belt school" signs on the wall

Schools like this always have a lot of students so I guess that type of martial arts is what most people want.

 

[Tez3]

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Well, now can't I underline my points a little.... Guess not... Anyway, I threw the statement out there and not unsurprisingly, the ego storm erupted.... And 1-dimensional insults prove your point? Oh well.... the alternative to accept someone else's accomplishment it typically a challenge....

OK, if you wish to 'underline' your points there is an underlining tool to do that, if you wish to emphasis a point italics or bold will do it.
The / doesn't mean underlining a point.

You threw a 'statement' out there that no one could understand, the actual wording made no sense, it has nothing to do with egos and there's no insults, simply we cannot respond if we don't know what you are talking about which, sadly, is about 95% of the time. Your statement here 'the alternative to accept someone else's accomplishment it typically a challenge' is a case in point, it's words which when put together make little sense. Do you speak another language as your first language? We are trying hard to understand your points not insult them.

 

[Hanzou]

As a person who has studied styles with kata and without kata, I still struggle to find the purpose behind kata practice beyond a simple desire to adhere to tradition.

It's to the point where I actively avoid styles that practice kata.

 

[Flying Crane]

As a person who has studied styles with kata and without kata, I still struggle to find the purpose behind kata practice beyond a simple desire to adhere to tradition.

It's to the point where I actively avoid styles that practice kata.

Oh yeah, we know. That point was made a long time ago.

Move along now.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Almost makes me cry.

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Well some many here are 'crying' because I came in and put their feet to the fire... re the popurri of views about kata. Actually, not knowing who is really behind the avatars.... it was / is a good thread...
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And Buka, Ja Gow is huge on free sparring as the way to go.... his theory is not working out so well here.... Any ideas on why not???