"Every cop should learn BJj" Do you agree?

[CB Jones]

Maybe a possible solution to some of the deficiencies in DT would be to create a condensed DT system based on MMA. A good 6 month dose of BJJ/MuayThai/Wrestling/Judo etc. With pressure testing. Without that pressure testing, you're not gaining much.

Thats what DT is....a condensed system of techniques from different arts altered to allow handcuffing.

Its a very condensed basic system....most departments don't have the budget for a 6 month DT training program for all their officers.

 

[drop bear]

I'm not taking much notice of the firearms requirements differences, because I don't think it's particularly relevant to the "BJJ cop" subject.

Well, apart from showing differences exist...

But I'd expect differences to exist tbh, an inner city beat cop is going to have a different day compared to a cop in the sticks making rounds of farms.

So, a country deputy isn't going to need the same tools - but (and I may have this utterly wrong) doesn't an academy graduate pretty much go where they're sent?

The academy is therefore going to have to cover far more bases.

Every country every region has basically the same dynamics when it comes to these sorts of fights.

This is an arrest in the UK.

But it could quite simply been anywhere in the world.

The idea that there is some sort of specialist dynamic that occurs within a specific region or within a specific industry has no evidence.

Izreal. Military dealing with a protest.

Different country different organizations. Same dynamics.

Let's go to Russia.

And the same dynamics. Different language different culture. But same thing.

The could have been reading from a script.

Mabye security has a different dynamic?

Let's look at loss prevention.

 

[Steve]

Most gyms offer discounts to LEO and active duty military. While the department might not have the funding, 2 or 3 nights a week might not be a bad idea... at least for a year or two to get the basics.

 

[CB Jones]

Most gyms offer discounts to LEO and active duty military. While the department might not have the funding, 2 or 3 nights a week might not be a bad idea... at least for a year or two to get the basics.

It's tough. I've been wanting for me and my son to join a school but between his karate, baseball, and basketball plus the hours I have to work....we havent figured out how to make it work. The nearest BJJ school is 52 miles away so that doesnt help either.

 

[Steve]

It's tough. I've been wanting for me and my son to join a school but between his karate, baseball, and basketball plus the hours I have to work....we havent figured out how to make it work. The nearest BJJ school is 52 miles away so that doesnt help either.

That’s a little far.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I know a lot of cops who train BJJ and some BJJ instructors who train cops in dt. I haven’t read the entire thread, so excuse me if I am making points that have already been made, but We are talking about professionals here. I’m sure some cops do the bare minimum to get by, but I’d like to think most do not limit their development to two weeks per year. It seems pretty clear that the minimum is checking a box and little more.

You'd hope so, but it's not my experience. I've trained with a lot of cops, and most of them were the only guys in their squad (or other relevant group) seeking ongoing training. Just as there are many cops who don't go to the effort to train with their firearms on an ongoing basis.

I don't know what the proportions are for either of those - my sampling is neither random nor likely representative.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Most gyms offer discounts to LEO and active duty military. While the department might not have the funding, 2 or 3 nights a week might not be a bad idea... at least for a year or two to get the basics.

I've been considering that, myself. If I had my solo program again, I think I'd let LEO train free. I'll have to talk to the owner of the school I'm joining to see what she does.

 

[lklawson]

I'm not taking much notice of the firearms requirements differences, because I don't think it's particularly relevant to the "BJJ cop" subject.

You asked if there were national "minimum standards" for things like "fitness" and "conditioning." No. As an example I pointed out that there aren't even agreed on standards for something as narrowly framed as how accurate you have to be with a pistol at a given range.

There are no national minimal acceptable standards agreed on for any cop-ly skill or attribute, not even the color of the uniform. Every different organization is free to set their own standards.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[pdg]

You asked if there were national "minimum standards" for things like "fitness" and "conditioning." No. As an example I pointed out that there aren't even agreed on standards for something as narrowly framed as how accurate you have to be with a pistol at a given range.

There are no national minimal acceptable standards agreed on for any cop-ly skill or attribute, not even the color of the uniform. Every different organization is free to set their own standards.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I didn't use the word 'national'...

 

[lklawson]

I didn't use the word 'national'...

<sigh> Fine. Yes, there are "standards." Every organization has different "standards." Just like me. I have standards. They're not the same as anyone else' though. So if no one has the same "standards" are there any "standards?"

 

[pdg]

<sigh> Fine. Yes, there are "standards." Every organization has different "standards." Just like me. I have standards. They're not the same as anyone else' though. So if no one has the same "standards" are there any "standards?"

Sure there can.

You can have personal standards, school standards, state/county standards - and so on.

Having a set of standards suggests you've put at least a little consideration into what you consider the minimum level of acceptability.

What this was kind of leading to is that a person of at least close to average fitness (or above) stands a decent chance against any other average kind of person.

Add in a bit of training in restraint, the authority of the uniform (which does actually exist) and a few other tools and that "bit below average" person is well above average.

Then also consider that "street fighting" is pretty much the last thing a police officer should really be engaging in.

Take all that, add in the "survival rate" (whichever one you choose, the percentage is close enough that it doesn't matter) and you get to my opinion on the initial subject of the thread...


No.

Police should not be compelled to train in any specific fighting art, whether BJJ or not. What they do (in combination with everything else) actually works well enough in the very vast majority of cases.

 

[lklawson]

Sure there can.

You can have personal standards, school standards, state/county standards - and so on.

Having a set of standards suggests you've put at least a little consideration into what you consider the minimum level of acceptability.

What this was kind of leading to is that a person of at least close to average fitness (or above) stands a decent chance against any other average kind of person.

Add in a bit of training in restraint, the authority of the uniform (which does actually exist) and a few other tools and that "bit below average" person is well above average.

Then also consider that "street fighting" is pretty much the last thing a police officer should really be engaging in.

Take all that, add in the "survival rate" (whichever one you choose, the percentage is close enough that it doesn't matter) and you get to my opinion on the initial subject of the thread...


No.

Police should not be compelled to train in any specific fighting art, whether BJJ or not. What they do (in combination with everything else) actually works well enough in the very vast majority of cases.

What does that have to do with your question "Firstly, I'm assuming there are minimum standards required to become a police officer relating to things like fitness and other physical condition - is that assumption valid?" particularly in relation to the prefacing modifying statement "bearing in mind I've not done a DT course and I'm in a different country."???

 

[pdg]

What does that have to do with your question

Lots.

Or not much.

That's up to the person reading the question to decide whether there's any relevance and if so, how much.


Surely you don't expect consistent logic? Especially when I also added that some of it was random thoughts...

 

[lklawson]

Lots.

Or not much.

That's up to the person reading the question to decide whether there's any relevance and if so, how much.


Surely you don't expect consistent logic? Especially when I also added that some of it was random thoughts...

Forgive me, but I'm a little confused then as to what you're asking or where you're going. I thought that I'd answered that everyone has a bunch of different "standards" applicable only to them (sort of like dating; do you prefer "skanky" or "chaste?").

 

[pdg]

Forgive me, but I'm a little confused then as to what you're asking or where you're going. I thought that I'd answered that everyone has a bunch of different "standards" applicable only to them (sort of like dating; do you prefer "skanky" or "chaste?").

I arrived where I was going in my previous post.

 

[Buka]

This is the most amusing thread I've read in a long while. With the time difference here it goes smashingly well with coffee.

 

[drop bear]

This is the most amusing thread I've read in a long while. With the time difference here it goes smashingly well with coffee.

Yeah because It works along a lot of the stereotypes of martial arts and self defense dogma.

From secret systems to two week results to trained by professionals to only the initiated would understand.

But it is also very precious to some people so we get some heavy investment in defending it.

If this was modern barbarian or even Krav in Israel nobody would let it fly. If someone claimed only women can understand womens self defense they would be scoffed at.

But it is this weird nook where logic doesnt apply and only authority matters.

Strangely I have found this shift even from generally sensible guys when it comes to self defence.

It is a really strange dynamic.

 

[Buka]

The only things I think matter are what rules one is governed by, and experience in what is being discussed.

 

[drop bear]

The only things I think matter are what rules one is governed by, and experience in what is being discussed.

Well yeah everyone thinks that. That is the logical falacy of anecdotal evidence.

 

[drop bear]

It happens everywhere.

So here is an example of how people with no experience on how to be women are not able to work a technique that obviously works on the street.

And why only women should speak about womens self defense.