Should Off Duty Officers Carry Guns In Bars?

[Alan0354]

Law enforcement officers should be encouraged to carry their weapon when off duty. The article is from MSLSD, of cause they pull out one case that we don't even know whether it's justified. How about crimes that off duty officers prevent by using their weapon?

This is political.

hell, it's a lot safer and effective than private citizens carrying guns because they are not trained.

 

[Jimmythebull]

But that is not correct. I have carried a knife pretty much every day of my life and have never used it in a fight. I have carried a gun for at least 30 years, and I have never used it. My wife has carried for the past 10 years. Never used it. My mother carried a gun her entire LEO career. Never used it. Two of her brothers were also cops. One did shoot a guy, after the bad guy fired at him. That brother had a son who followed him as a LEO. Never used his gun. One of our sons and a son-in-law are cops. One of them shot a murder suspect who came out of a house trailer with a shotgun. Four of our non-LEO kids also carry. Never used them.

So two out of twelve in my immediate family, both wholly justified. There are 500,000 people in Colorado with concealed carry permits. There are over 20 million people in the US with concealed carry permits.

The number of violent crimes committed by CCW holders is miniscule. A study done by the "Violence Policy Center" (an anti-gun organization) collected a bunch of data. They identified 1,335 gun fatalities involving a CCW holder. After eliminating the deaths in which a CCW permit was irrelevant (such as suicide or crimes in their own home - both of which are terrible things, but neither has any bearing on CCW permits) they were left with 801 fatalities involving CCW holders that were determined not to qualify as self-defense. 801. That is all. Oh, did I mention that the data covered a fifteen year time span?

It's not looking good for your claims...

Just your opinions. So are you claiming all gun owners are responsible? Sorry but I don't buy that.

Higher rates of mass shootings in US states with more relaxed gun control laws - BMJ Group

Widening gap in deaths emerging between these states and those with more restrictive laws US states with more relaxed gun control laws and higher rates of gun ownership have higher rates of mass shootings, reveals a time trends analysis, published today in The BMJ. And the gap in the rate of...

www.bmj.com

 

[Alan0354]

Higher rates of mass shootings in US states with more relaxed gun control laws - BMJ Group

Widening gap in deaths emerging between these states and those with more restrictive laws US states with more relaxed gun control laws and higher rates of gun ownership have higher rates of mass shootings, reveals a time trends analysis, published today in The BMJ. And the gap in the rate of...

www.bmj.com

I look at Wikipedia, seems like mass shooting happened all over, NY, ILL and Ca that have very straight gun control have plenty of their share.
List of mass shootings in the United States - Wikipedia

Remember mass shooting is only very small number compare to everyday shooting, NYC, Chicago, Baltimore and most of the big cities with very straight gun control have very high gun killing numbers. Have you add up all the death from mass shooting and compare to all the death from shooting in those cities with straight gun control?

Be careful what you read as this is a very political issue. You have articles from both sides. You have to be objective and see through all the smoke.

 

[Jimmythebull]

careful what you read as this is a very political issue. You have to be objective.

I'm not bringing politics into anything. I don't care about US politics. I'm saying the facts are there doesn't matter how you spin it.
Enough gun-ho cops in the USA with massive egos too. If someone is aggressive & carries a gun in public they'll probably pull it regardless who started the argument. If a large number of citizens are walking around with guns in public it stands to reason that not all incidents will be "self defense ".

 

[Jimmythebull]

Check out this nice old boy. This is exactly my point. Too easy to pull out a gun.

 

[drop bear]

Using a gun under the influence is as irresponsible as driving under the influence. Cop, no cop whatever. I don't care how many times someone either hasn't crashed or hasn't shot someone.

If you carry a gun it should be taken seriously.

 

[Jared Traveler]

I'm just discovering the "unwatch" feather. Hopefully it works and I stop getting notifications for this thread.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Just your opinions. So are you claiming all gun owners are responsible? Sorry but I don't buy that.

Data from law enforcement records is "just [my] opinions"?

 

[Steve]

Using a gun under the influence is as irresponsible as driving under the influence. Cop, no cop whatever. I don't care how many times someone either hasn't crashed or hasn't shot someone.

If you carry a gun it should be taken seriously.

Cops do “emphasis patrols” for DUI. Would be great if they’d do emphasis patrols for guns in bars too.

 

[seasoned]

Cops do “emphasis patrols” for DUI. Would be great if they’d do emphasis patrols for guns in bars too.

Probable cause comes to mind with traffic stops........plus guns in bars "stop and frisk".... is old news.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Data from law enforcement records is "just [my] opinions"?

Which law enforcement records?
Be more specific? Your area or are you talking Nation wide.
You were giving yourself & family members as an example. Doesn't speak for millions of gun owners.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Which law enforcement records?
Be more specific? Your area or are you talking Nation wide.
You were giving yourself & family members as an example. Doesn't speak for millions of gun owners.

Did you actually read what I wrote? Here. I'll include it again:

The number of violent crimes committed by CCW holders is miniscule. A study done by the "Violence Policy Center" (an anti-gun organization) collected a bunch of data. They identified 1,335 gun fatalities involving a CCW holder. After eliminating the deaths in which a CCW permit was irrelevant (such as suicide or crimes in their own home - both of which are terrible things, but neither has any bearing on CCW permits) they were left with 801 fatalities involving CCW holders that were determined not to qualify as self-defense. 801. That is all. Oh, did I mention that the data covered a fifteen year time span?

 

[Jimmythebull]

Did you actually read what I wrote? Here. I'll include it again:

I've moved on it's getting boring to be honest.

 

[jks9199]

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[drop bear]

Did you actually read what I wrote? Here. I'll include it again:

Is there a link to this study?

 

[Jimmythebull]

Is there a link to this study?

There's studies all over the Internet it's just ex cops cherry picking & one member squeeling ( no pun intended )because it obviously doesn't suit his thread & ideology.

 

[Steve]

Is there a link to this study?

I couldn’t find a study that said what he was saying. But I found one that seems close, concluding that it is exceedingly rare for guns to be helpful jn a self defense situation, based on available, supplemental FBI data.

Dirty Dog seemed to confirm this earlier as he was recounting how many of his family members carry guns everywhere but never use them outside of being a cop.

https://vpc.org/studies/justifiable18.pdf

 

[Martlet]

I couldn’t find a study that said what he was saying. But I found one that seems close, concluding that it is exceedingly rare for guns to be helpful jn a self defense situation, based on available, supplemental FBI data.

Dirty Dog seemed to confirm this earlier as he was recounting how many of his family members carry guns everywhere but never use them outside of being a cop.

https://vpc.org/studies/justifiable18.pdf

That makes sense, because at the end of the day most law-abiding citizens aren’t in situations where they need to apply force to defend themselves. It doesn’t matter if they are armed or not.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Is there a link to this study?

Google has it.

I couldn’t find a study that said what he was saying. But I found one that seems close, concluding that it is exceedingly rare for guns to be helpful jn a self defense situation, based on available, supplemental FBI data.

That is not at all what it shows. What it shows is that CCW holders rarely need to fire their weapon.

HERE is a report, using data from the CDC (most definitely not a pro-gun group) that shows handguns being used for self defense hundreds of thousands times each year. The number of those uses that actually requires the weapon to be fired is miniscule. Which means that the gun was used successfully, without needing to cause harm. Perfect outcome.

 

[drop bear]

Google has it.

I googled it. And it doesn't say what you are saying.