Etiquette

[Gyakuto]

I really thought that this thread would finally explain to me which fork to use when.

I’m afraid your location suggests you use an ‘alternative’ handling of cutlery anyway, and that you are thus beyond salvation!

I am actually learning Western formal dining etiquette and it’s pretty straightforward. Start from the outside, of the laid cutlery, and work inwards for each course. The tines of the fork should never point upwards so no scooping! Squash peas onto the back of the fork.

I‘m also learning Ogasawara Ryu Japanese dining (and other) etiquette. That is not straightforward!

 

[Steve]

I’m afraid your location suggests you use an ‘alternative’ handling of cutlery anyway, and that you are thus beyond salvation!

I am actually learning Western formal dining etiquette and it’s pretty straightforward. Start from the outside, of the laid cutlery, and work inwards for each course. The tines of the fork should never point upwards so no scooping! Squash peas onto the back of the fork.

I‘m also learning Ogasawara Ryu Japanese dining (and other) etiquette. That is not straightforward!

The working from the outside in part I've heard before. But tines never pointing upward? That's a new one for me. Must be why everyone looks so horrified when I eat.

And don't get me started on soup... never slurp your soup in the West, but slurp away if it's pho or ramen. Who can remember all that?

 

[Gyakuto]

Well you have remembered!

Be under no illusion, Steve, these rules exist only to make the British feel superior to US citizens because we have nothing else compared to you!

Now pass the port please..but in which direction and who’s do you pour?

 

[Gyakuto]

There was some minor celebrity talking about dining in close proximity to the late Queen, at a state banquet. The guest was bewildered with the array of plates, cutlery and flatware, wine glasses etc at her place and the Queen was so close to her! The celebrity said the Queen spotted her distress and throughout the meal indicated with her eyes which piece of equipment to use and when: then she simply followed the Queens example!

 

[isshinryuronin]

I‘m also learning Ogasawara Ryu Japanese dining (and other) etiquette. That is not straightforward!

I'm sure this would even challenge Britain's Royal House etiquette supervisor. I understand the formality of Tea Ceremony and the proper way to open the sliding fusuma, but when it comes down to stuffing good food into your face, I think an excess of manners takes away from the enjoyment of the food. Too much to think about other than enjoying the taste.

The exception is when food is not the main purpose, merely the setting for when form is more important than function, or when form is the function, something not uncommon in Japan. Interesting that Ogasawara martial art was connected to formal eating and other areas of etiquette. Just goes to show how respect and manners are ingrained in their society and still seen in real TMA.

By the way, why did you decide to learn Ogaswara etiquette? A rather esoteric interest. Are you planning on rubbing elbows with royalty?

 

[Gyakuto]

I'm sure this would even challenge Britain's Royal House etiquette supervisor. I understand the formality of Tea Ceremony and the proper way to open the sliding fusuma, but when it comes down to stuffing good food into your face, I think an excess of manners takes away from the enjoyment of the food. Too much to think about other than enjoying the taste.

The exception is when food is not the main purpose, merely the setting for when form is more important than function, or when form is the function, something not uncommon in Japan. Interesting that Ogasawara martial art was connected to formal eating and other areas of etiquette. Just goes to show how respect and manners are ingrained in their society and still seen in real TMA.

By the way, why did you decide to learn Ogaswara etiquette? A rather esoteric interest. Are you planning on rubbing elbows with royalty?

I think etiquette is about making those around you feel comfortable. So at home, I might shovel food into my gob and not worry about a morsel falling from my mouth (I don’t and I do), but in public I wouldn’t want those around co-diners to feel nauseated by me eating with my mouth open, such that they can see the food in mouth becoming more and more liquid thanks to copious saliva being squirted into my cake ‘ole. Or licking my fingers free of tomato sauce…at arms length (). But I agree that breaking a bread roll and buttering a little part from a dollop smudged onto ones side plate and eating that portion rather than cutting it in half, buttering the whole thing and eating it is opaque

I’m not sure how the Ogasawara/etiquette association developed. I should ask them… I think even in the West, a lot of dealing is done over a meal and half a shandy, sussing out a potential son-in-law, or vetting a new saucepan seasoner (I’m watching Frasier).

I won’t be dining with Japanese Royalty but descendants of notable Samurai is likely. I have a lot of time on my hand, I’m a Japanophile and I quite like esoteric arts…hence Iaido etc so why not?

I have dined with a Duke, but that was more like a school refractory lunch than a formal dinner. He was really nice and down-to-earth and he served everyone at our table. He described himself as a ‘farmer’…yes, half of bloody Scotland

 

[Alan0354]

Hey, have some respect to the forum.

 

[Tez3]

I’m afraid your location suggests you use an ‘alternative’ handling of cutlery anyway, and that you are thus beyond salvation!

I am actually learning Western formal dining etiquette and it’s pretty straightforward. Start from the outside, of the laid cutlery, and work inwards for each course. The tines of the fork should never point upwards so no scooping! Squash peas onto the back of the fork.

I‘m also learning Ogasawara Ryu Japanese dining (and other) etiquette. That is not straightforward!

And don't hold your knife like a pen!

 

[tkdroamer]

The working from the outside in part I've heard before. But tines never pointing upward? That's a new one for me. Must be why everyone looks so horrified when I eat.

And don't get me started on soup... never slurp your soup in the West, but slurp away if it's pho or ramen. Who can remember all that?

I have a problem with the slurping. If it is hot, I will slurp. That goes for coffee as well.
If I have a meat and three plate odds are the vegetables will get mixed together so all bets about direction are off.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I watch others at the table and do my best to emulate them. I've made a few mistakes, but I do try to not be a savage.

"When in Rome" tends to apply. I've spent time eating from a can of c-rations whilst squatting in the dirt, and I've eaten dinner at the Waldorf-Astoria with many current and former dignitaries and celebrities. Life throws some funny curves at you.

Probably the funniest eating faux pas was when I was teaching in Beijing. My students took me out to lunch one day, and we ate at a large table that had a lazy susan type thing on which the food was placed and rotated around; you took what you wanted and put it on your plate. As the waiters kept refilling the open spaces on the lazy susan, when I saw a 40 ounce beer come rotating by. I took it. And then I drank it. I was embarrassed when one of my students told me that it was intended for the entire class.

They all thought I would be too drunk to teach. They were not used to Americans and their capacity for booze, I guess. I mean, sure, I got a mild buzz, but drunk? Not from a 40.

 

[Gyakuto]

And don't hold your knife like a pen!

Ooo yes!

 

[Gyakuto]

"When in Rome" tends to apply. I've spent time eating from a can of c-rations whilst squatting in the dirt, and I've eaten dinner at the Waldorf-Astoria with many current and former dignitaries and celebrities. Life throws some funny curves at you.

OMG

 

[tkdroamer]

I watch others at the table and do my best to emulate them. I've made a few mistakes, but I do try to not be a savage.

"When in Rome" tends to apply. I've spent time eating from a can of c-rations whilst squatting in the dirt, and I've eaten dinner at the Waldorf-Astoria with many current and former dignitaries and celebrities. Life throws some funny curves at you.

Probably the funniest eating faux pas was when I was teaching in Beijing. My students took me out to lunch one day, and we ate at a large table that had a lazy susan type thing on which the food was placed and rotated around; you took what you wanted and put it on your plate. As the waiters kept refilling the open spaces on the lazy susan, when I saw a 40 ounce beer come rotating by. I took it. And then I drank it. I was embarrassed when one of my students told me that it was intended for the entire class.

They all thought I would be too drunk to teach. They were not used to Americans and their capacity for booze, I guess. I mean, sure, I got a mild buzz, but drunk? Not from a 40.

Fosters!!!