Enough experience to teach? Yea or nay?

[Yokozuna514]

I, unfortunately, do have one real fight under my belt. Ironically, it was not connected with my military service directly, but I did stop one of the scariest men I know (trained in boxing and considerably bigger than me) from strangling a friend of ours, and subsequently subdued him when he decided to try to strangle me instead... and I subdued him with no significant injury to either of us, to boot! I certainly don't have dozens of bar fights under my belt, but then, going around looking for trouble goes against the philosophy of the martial arts, at least in my mind.



Sadly no sir, but if you ever want to visit a fellow martial artist across the pond, it would certainly be a pleasure to train with you! And I'm partial to the US Air Force myself, but the SAS dudes I played OPFOR for one time were really cool!

As for my teaching, I generally feel pretty good about it. One of my Aikido instructors (background in Judo and Hapkido, for those of you who are wary of Aikido) watched my first class at the YMCA and was amazed that I was able to wrangle a class of complete beginners. He thought I did an excellent job. Perhaps the best evidence I have, however, is that my tiniest student came into class one day after practicing with her boyfriend and proudly announced that she had to catch him when practicing Osoto Gari because she had successfully thrown him on a collision course with their coffee table!

@Yokozuna514, I just want to say that I very much appreciate your viewpoint, and that very viewpoint is exactly why I posted this thread. I do think I have a knack for teaching (I've done a lot of it in various forms), and I'd like to think I'm a decent martial artist. Still, in a world where so many people have put up a shingle with questionable credentials and taught stuff that is useless at best, and outright dangerous at worst, I want to make sure anything I do both benefits my students while still respecting the many practitioners who have considerably more experience and skill than I do.

I appreciate the sentiment and I am glad that you took my comments as they were intended. Unfortunately there are tons of people that do just that, hang a shingle with questionable credentials and teach many useless and dangerous techniques without the proper care or understanding for their students.

Having the ability to teach others is probably the most important criteria for being a good teacher. Having a vetted program to teach with the credentials that display the number of years you have dedicated to your craft can only help you. As an instructor, I am glad to have others with more experience than I do to refer questions to if and when they come up. Saves me a lot of time to gather the information and I don't have to worry if it is inconsistent with the lessons I have previously taught. Good luck to you and if it hasn't been said to you before, thank you for your service.

 

[Tez3]

[

Sadly no sir,

Ma'am actually ( that's the Brit way of saying it, I was RAF)

but the SAS dudes I played OPFOR for one time were really cool!

They're not bad but see if you can play with the SBS, they are the ones who rode an Apache helicopter to go rescue a mate in Afghan. And Gurkhas, curries are brilliant as are they.

I'm now far too old to train much these days but thank you for your kind invitation. It's much appreciated.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I, unfortunately, do have one real fight under my belt. Ironically, it was not connected with my military service directly, but I did stop one of the scariest men I know (trained in boxing and considerably bigger than me) from strangling a friend of ours, and subsequently subdued him when he decided to try to strangle me instead... and I subdued him with no significant injury to either of us, to boot! I certainly don't have dozens of bar fights under my belt, but then, going around looking for trouble goes against the philosophy of the martial arts, at least in my mind.



Sadly no sir, but if you ever want to visit a fellow martial artist across the pond, it would certainly be a pleasure to train with you! And I'm partial to the US Air Force myself, but the SAS dudes I played OPFOR for one time were really cool!

As for my teaching, I generally feel pretty good about it. One of my Aikido instructors (background in Judo and Hapkido, for those of you who are wary of Aikido) watched my first class at the YMCA and was amazed that I was able to wrangle a class of complete beginners. He thought I did an excellent job. Perhaps the best evidence I have, however, is that my tiniest student came into class one day after practicing with her boyfriend and proudly announced that she had to catch him when practicing Osoto Gari because she had successfully thrown him on a collision course with their coffee table!

@Yokozuna514, I just want to say that I very much appreciate your viewpoint, and that very viewpoint is exactly why I posted this thread. I do think I have a knack for teaching (I've done a lot of it in various forms), and I'd like to think I'm a decent martial artist. Still, in a world where so many people have put up a shingle with questionable credentials and taught stuff that is useless at best, and outright dangerous at worst, I want to make sure anything I do both benefits my students while still respecting the many practitioners who have considerably more experience and skill than I do.

I'll just toss in - as someone who studies and teaches in the aiki arts - that your comment about Aikido gives me confidence in you. That you recognize that both Judo and Hapkido are good backgrounds for your Aikido instructor (obviously, paired with his Aikido) is a good thing. I would expect an Aikido instructor with that background to teach a bit differently, and in a good way.

If you pair what you learned of resistive training in BJJ and other places, with your Aikido knowledge, you can make much more out of that 7 years than most could.

 

[Oni_Kadaki]

I'll just toss in - as someone who studies and teaches in the aiki arts - that your comment about Aikido gives me confidence in you. That you recognize that both Judo and Hapkido are good backgrounds for your Aikido instructor (obviously, paired with his Aikido) is a good thing. I would expect an Aikido instructor with that background to teach a bit differently, and in a good way.

If you pair what you learned of resistive training in BJJ and other places, with your Aikido knowledge, you can make much more out of that 7 years than most could.

Aikido is an absolutely beautiful art, both visually and philosophically. However, it's been my experience that the best Aikido instructors usually have another background. It's also my experience that straight Aikidoka often do not know how to strike effectively. I've gotten to the point where I can sometimes work in irimi nage or kokyu nage against my Karate classmates of about my same rank when free sparring. I've also made tenkan work to beautiful effect on a handful of occasions. That being said, I do not advertise pure Aikido as an easily-acquired defensive art (though I've seen some traditional Aikido instructors who have no such qualms), and I tend to blend the subtleties of balance-breaking to enhance the effectiveness of Karate and Jiu Jitsu techniques. That's not to say that I don't think that, after seven years of training, that I can't pull of a shiho nage at speed... but I'm not going to teach that right off the bat to a woman looking to learn how to get a would-be rapist off of her. The more advanced and nuanced stuff can come after I teach her to strike for the balls, the nose, or the carotid artery, and put him in an armbar while he's clutching his bleeding face.

 

[Tez3]

I mentioned it because the OP asked if we thought it was reasonable for him to teach as a side job.

A side job? Really? The vast majority of martial arts instructors in my country have full time jobs so teach martial arts in the evenings and weekends, we have very few full time instructors, hell, we don't even have many full time MMA fighters or coaches, we all have to work as the OP does. Calling it a 'side job' makes it sounds like a seedy bit on the side instead of someone wanting to pass his knowledge on.

I think frankly you need to get over yourself because I can imagine the next thing will be 'real instructors don't charge money for teaching'. I understand that for you it's the romance of imagining yourself as a warrior student of past times, dedicating his life to the one noble art. However I seriously think that even in the 'olden days' instructors needed to live so worked at other jobs to provide a roof over their heads. Putting down others because they don't have your vison is petty.

40 hours. Doesn't seem long admittedly but many believe that you only need one specific kata to be able to defend yourself and it's quite likely that's true as that one kata does contain everything you need. It's great knowing many techniques, many ways of defending yourself but that also comes with it's own dangers. I assume you've the heard the story of the cat and the fox. They are sat under a tree talking about all the techniques they know to avoid getting caught by the hounds, the cat says she only has one technique, the fox is boasting about how many he has. They hear the hounds coming close, the cat runs up the tree, her one technique, the fox is still sat trying to decide which of his many techniques he's going to use when the hounds catch him. end of fox and story.

Knowing the military that 40 hours of training will contain the exact techniques needed for defence, no more, no less and it will be drilled into those taking the course. They may be the cats of the story but they will have good, workable, effective techniques they will be able to use and that is the point of a self defence course so don't sneer at it.

I should probably point out too that many martial artists cannot do self defence to save their lives even after dozens of years training.

and now I'm off to bed, it's that time here. Good night all.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Aikido is an absolutely beautiful art, both visually and philosophically. However, it's been my experience that the best Aikido instructors usually have another background. It's also my experience that straight Aikidoka often do not know how to strike effectively. I've gotten to the point where I can sometimes work in irimi nage or kokyu nage against my Karate classmates of about my same rank when free sparring. I've also made tenkan work to beautiful effect on a handful of occasions. That being said, I do not advertise pure Aikido as an easily-acquired defensive art (though I've seen some traditional Aikido instructors who have no such qualms), and I tend to blend the subtleties of balance-breaking to enhance the effectiveness of Karate and Jiu Jitsu techniques. That's not to say that I don't think that, after seven years of training, that I can't pull of a shiho nage at speed... but I'm not going to teach that right off the bat to a woman looking to learn how to get a would-be rapist off of her. The more advanced and nuanced stuff can come after I teach her to strike for the balls, the nose, or the carotid artery, and put him in an armbar while he's clutching his bleeding face.

My view (and you'll see it elsewhere on this forum) is that Ueshiba's art - at least as it has been passed on by most - is best laid atop another foundation. Judo works, as does Karate or another striking art. The best foundation includes strikes and non-aiki grappling. Add Aikido to that, and you get usable Aikido. Without those others, the chances of getting the opportunity to do Aikido becomes more remote, especially if the other guy has any skill (regardless of whether he's trained or not).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

A side job? Really? The vast majority of martial arts instructors in my country have full time jobs so teach martial arts in the evenings and weekends, we have very few full time instructors, hell, we don't even have many full time MMA fighters or coaches, we all have to work as the OP does. Calling it a 'side job' makes it sounds like a seedy bit on the side instead of someone wanting to pass his knowledge on.

Just to clarify, Tez, in the US a "side job" is not a bad thing, and doesn't carry the connotation you seem to have.

 

[Headhunter]

Just to clarify, Tez, in the US a "side job" is not a bad thing, and doesn't carry the connotation you seem to have.

In the UK side job isn't a bad thing either far as I know, I used to work in a school in the afternoons at one point and I had a side job doing morning work for a newspaper company. Not a bad thing it was just an extra bit of cash at the end of the month

 

[Tez3]

Just to clarify, Tez, in the US a "side job" is not a bad thing, and doesn't carry the connotation you seem to have.

I didn't say it was bad, I mean it as saying it's a side job is diminishing the importance, 'it's just for the money not for love' ( even though money is important) It's another condescension. There are quite a few martial artists I have comes across who think instructing for money is a betrayal of 'the art' and one should be 'pure', which to my mind is arty farty, dedication isn't diminished by charging or not doing it full time or not have decades of training behind you.

 

[Headhunter]

I didn't say it was bad, I mean it as saying it's a side job is diminishing the importance, 'it's just for the money not for love' ( even though money is important) It's another condescension. There are quite a few martial artists I have comes across who think instructing for money is a betrayal of 'the art' and one should be 'pure', which to my mind is arty farty, dedication isn't diminished by charging or not doing it full time or not have decades of training behind you.

Yeah but no one said that...they just called it a side job they didn't say anything about love or money just that it was a side job

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I don't know if anyone has asked, if so just tell me they have, but did you teach anything in the military? If so they should have given you some degree of admin skill to actually set up a lesson. (saw the certified trainer segment) That alone might put you a little ahead of some other people.

 

[Tez3]

Yeah but no one said that...they just called it a side job they didn't say anything about love or money just that it was a side job

You have to take it in the context of the bigger post, what I said in the other posts and the manner in which the condescension was being spread around in the post I was answering. I know no one said anything about love or money.

Why do people like to tell you what people didn't mention when it's obvious to all?

 

[drop bear]

I, unfortunately, do have one real fight under my belt. Ironically, it was not connected with my military service directly, but I did stop one of the scariest men I know (trained in boxing and considerably bigger than me) from strangling a friend of ours, and subsequently subdued him when he decided to try to strangle me instead... and I subdued him with no significant injury to either of us, to boot! I certainly don't have dozens of bar fights under my belt, but then, going around looking for trouble goes against the philosophy of the martial arts, at least in my mind.

And so you need to develop your live experience. You can teach and develop this provided you are aware of it.

This doesn't happen much with self defense instruction and because of that the instruction suffers from this story based rubbish.

Now you can get this practical experience doing live drills with quality instructors. Competing and exposing your self to situations that you may realistically fail at.

So those wall drills I showed earlier are honest drills. I take the coach down and man handle him then we both learn and develop rather than the technique having a pre determined outcome.

What that does is gives you a personal teaching approach to solving self defense problems.

 

[drop bear]

You have to take it in the context of the bigger post, what I said in the other posts and the manner in which the condescension was being spread around in the post I was answering. I know no one said anything about love or money.

Why do people like to tell you what people didn't mention when it's obvious to all?

Look up strawman.

 

[drop bear]

Most people who teach self defense don't have experience in self defence.

What you do instead is create a situation you create a set of priorities and then you test until you can achieve those priorities.

And it is an important distinction to make in your mind.

 

[marques]

Hello friends!

Haven't been on the forums for awhile due to grad school, military stuff, and actual practicing martial arts. However, I have an ethical dilemma on which I would like the opinions of seasoned martial artists. To briefly reiterate my background:

- Two years of Hakkoryu Jiu Jitsu in high school
- Seven years of Aikido as my location allowed (bounced around a lot on active duty)
- Two years BJJ, not very good, but have used it in an actual self-defense situation to great effect
- Two years between Shorin-Ryu and Chito-Ryu Karate
- Six months of American Kenpo Karate
- Three months Krav Maga
- Three months Tang Soo Do
-Certified level-one instructor of MACP (Modern Army Combatives Program)
- No dan/black belt rank in any of the above, though I'm approaching it in Aikido

Earlier this year I was hired by my local YMCA to teach a self-defense class. As the YMCA did not have a pre-existing curriculum, I was given free-reign to build my own from the ground up. I did so, and I received very positive feedback. The YMCA wanted me to teach another session of my class, but military duties are going to conflict with that. As such, they are looking at replacing me. With that in mind, I'm considering trying to start my own business teaching my own, personal mix of techniques gleaned from all of the above over the years. My question to you good people is, knowing my time/level of training, and knowing that I DO NOT have a black belt in any single martial art, would you think it reasonable for me to consider teaching as a side-job?

My concern is not the lack of black belt, but the lack of regular and consistent training on one art.

Other than that, you may still be able to make a nice programme while still learning. Business and teaching skills are more important than martial skills. So if you have it, give it a try.

PS: I assumed I am the ‘good people’. Hope I am right on this.

 

[Tez3]

Look up strawman.

Ah grasshopper, I would have thought of all people you would be against the holding of martial arts as something we should be worshipping at the altar of as silly. For some it's about the rituals, the 'I spent years as an apprentice on my knees cleaning the dojo to become worthy' thing where it doesn't matter how much practical experience you have you are tainted by the taking of money to teach and by the fact you train in ...omg street clothes and don't speak in riddles.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

PS: I assumed I am the ‘good people’. Hope I am right on this.

You've been a regular on MT for too long to hope for that.

 

[drop bear]

Ah grasshopper, I would have thought of all people you would be against the holding of martial arts as something we should be worshipping at the altar of as silly. For some it's about the rituals, the 'I spent years as an apprentice on my knees cleaning the dojo to become worthy' thing where it doesn't matter how much practical experience you have you are tainted by the taking of money to teach and by the fact you train in ...omg street clothes and don't speak in riddles.

I was just explaining why people are making the clarification.

 

[Tez3]

I was just explaining why people are making the clarification.

Ok, thanks.

Thought you'd appreciate this today.