Easy to Carry, Easy to Use Self Defense Weapons

[lklawson]

Yes, You watch any stick fight video, it very often people lose their stick during fights. In competition, worst that can happen is you lose the match. You lose the cane in real fight, you can lose your life.

You can practice hitting air, practice hitting bag and it will NOT help. You know you are either hitting something or not hitting something. You anticipate that already. It's a different story if you expect to hit something and it's not there. That's when the cane can go flying.

Also, in competition, you have a large space with nothing around. You only worry about the opponent. In real life, you have things around you. Like in the restaurant, you have other people, chairs and all. When you swing, you can hit stuffs that you don't expect and you can lose your cane because you are not prepare to contact at that point.

These are so bad particularly for non expert. I even modified a speed bag by deflating it, put 2lbs weight balls into the bag and tape it so it's narrow. It will not bounce when hitting the board like the normal speedbag and has no rhythm. I practice hitting only the bottom to make the chance of missing a lot higher. I use that to practice missing.

I also practice casting to make the swing a lot more compact. I practice in a tight environment to avoid hitting things accidentally.

May be for you experts, it's nothing, but it's life and death for non experts in real life self defense situation.

Ummm... OK.

 

[lklawson]

As someone who has needed a cane to walk since 16, I don't have a lot of experience actually using the stick to fight someone (would be pretty difficult since I'd have a balance issue if the cane is off the ground.)

That said, I do practice with bags and such just for my own edification and exercise.... it does make a difference and can help you grip the thing more steadily as you practice. Yes, it isn't the same, and there is a different mindset, but you can get around that or adapt to it as you practice.
[...]
Granted, this is from the perspective of a disabled cane-user, not a martial artist, so take that for what it's worth.

There's a small but available set of people who are teaching cane defense for people who actually need a cane to walk. The earliest one I am aware of is "Combat Cane for Cripples" by Chas Clements (RIP).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[frank raud]

Untrained with a knife? You want to tell me you are not a Grand Tuhon Supremo in some Philipino martial art, sure. But it' s not like you've never handled a knife before. You prep veggies to eat? You did that with a knife, not a spoon. You cut a steak? Guess what ? You used a knife. If you handed most people a three sectional staff, they would be clueless because they are untrained. You've had a knife in your hand daily since you were six years old. You know where the pointy end is, you know where the sharp edge is.

 

[jstacy1228]

There's a small but available set of people who are teaching cane defense for people who actually need a cane to walk. The earliest one I am aware of is "Combat Cane for Cripples" by Chas Clements (RIP).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Thank you! I was aware of one or two people but not this one, I will try to check that out. There are a few people who post content online that have some disabled students, so they try to tailor at least some of what they're teaching to people who are either elderly or, like me, young(ish) disabled folks. It's encouraging to see, and I'm glad we're considered.

I fully get why the vast majority of cane stuff out there is taught from the perspective that the learner doesn't have an impairment, though. That'd be the primary audience and the majority of the students, so it makes sense. I've found that a lot of the basic stick strikes in Kali work pretty well--nothing fancy, no spinning or complexity. Doesn't look pretty but less chance of something going amiss.

 

[lklawson]

Thank you! I was aware of one or two people but not this one, I will try to check that out. There are a few people who post content online that have some disabled students, so they try to tailor at least some of what they're teaching to people who are either elderly or, like me, young(ish) disabled folks. It's encouraging to see, and I'm glad we're considered.

I fully get why the vast majority of cane stuff out there is taught from the perspective that the learner doesn't have an impairment, though. That'd be the primary audience and the majority of the students, so it makes sense. I've found that a lot of the basic stick strikes in Kali work pretty well--nothing fancy, no spinning or complexity. Doesn't look pretty but less chance of something going amiss.

I'm not sure it's available any more. Maybe his close friend Steve Gartin or his son could find a copy for you. Chas passed a few years back, sadly.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[jstacy1228]

I'm not sure it's available any more. Maybe his close friend Steve Gartin or his son could find a copy for you. Chas passed a few years back, sadly.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Thanks for that. Now that I think about it I do seem to remember this. I once found some relatively old VHS cane tapes from many years back, but I don't recall the instructor off the top of my head.

 

[lklawson]

Thanks for that. Now that I think about it I do seem to remember this. I once found some relatively old VHS cane tapes from many years back, but I don't recall the instructor off the top of my head.

His website is still avaiable: http://kuntaosilat.net/cane.htm But I don't think anyone is minding the store.

There's a slim chance I might have a DVD. As I mentioned, you might be able to reach out to his son or to Gartin, if he isn't hiding from the government. I think he kind of rolled himself into the Freeman movement.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Alan0354]

As someone who has needed a cane to walk since 16, I don't have a lot of experience actually using the stick to fight someone (would be pretty difficult since I'd have a balance issue if the cane is off the ground.)

That said, I do practice with bags and such just for my own edification and exercise.... it does make a difference and can help you grip the thing more steadily as you practice. Yes, it isn't the same, and there is a different mindset, but you can get around that or adapt to it as you practice.

While not true in every case, when I see people losing their canes, it's because they do some kind of flourishes or other things with it, and they either lose their grip or get it taken from them.

Granted, this is from the perspective of a disabled cane-user, not a martial artist, so take that for what it's worth.

Tagentially, it feels to me like things like canes have experienced a surge in popularity in recent years due to their relatively ubiquitous and innocuous natures. Whether that is true in an actual sense I don't know, and I follow cane stuff, so that probably affects how I see it. There seem to be quite a few able-bodied folks out there turning to the cane as something they can take with them when they can't have other options. No judgment, it's just a little bit funny to me as someone who needs a cane every day.

I sure hope we don't come to a time where canes are viewed with more suspicion than not....

I practice hitting the bag twice a week also, I practice swinging in air. That has nothing to do with what I am talking about losing the cane. It's when you expect to hit and miss, or you don't expect to hit and hit something on the way to your target. You are not prepare for it.

Like I said, I do enough exercise on strength. I do grip exercise every week also. I have decent grip strength compare to a lot of other people in the gym. I can only do 6 to 7 body weight pull up(175lbs), not because of my grip, my arms are the limiting factor. For grip, I can easily hang another 40lbs to 50lbs on my body and I can hold on to the bar hanging.

Problem is you do not squeeze the cane from beginning to the end of the striking arc. That will slow you down. It's like punching, you do not tighten your muscles until the point of hitting. You relax before and after the focus point. So if you hit something unexpected or miss what you try to hit, you don't necessary squeeze the cane tight away from the focusing point.

This open up a totally different can of worms.

Be aware of losing the cane by accident. It happens to the best. One of the expert here Lamont Glass ( aka Blindside here) even showed he lost his cane in the match. Look at 6:17 here:

Like I said, it's not big deal to lose the cane in a competition, but it's life and death in self defense situation. Particularly when you are nervous. I play it save, I put a loop around my wrist. I have been practicing without the loop at home, it's been months since I lose my cane. But I don't take any chance.

Also, I swing with two hands, I use a cane that is 20oz with a big foot to make it tip heavy. There's a lot of momentum to pull the cane when swinging. It's not like the rattan escrima sticks that are only about 7oz. I use a fiber filled Nylon cane.

 

[tim po]

Untrained with a knife? You want to tell me you are not a Grand Tuhon Supremo in some Philipino martial art, sure. But it' s not like you've never handled a knife before. You prep veggies to eat? You did that with a knife, not a spoon. You cut a steak? Guess what ? You used a knife. If you handed most people a three sectional staff, they would be clueless because they are untrained. You've had a knife in your hand daily since you were six years old. You know where the pointy end is, you know where the sharp edge is.

cutting a steak does absolutely NOTHING to prepare someone for defending themselves with a knife. I do not agree that any weapon automatically makes any person more effective at defending themselves without any training. some people, certain weapons? yeah. a knife, no training whatsoever? probably just gonna piss him off more, and now he has a knife.

 

[jstacy1228]

I practice hitting the bag twice a week also, I practice swinging in air. That has nothing to do with what I am talking about losing the cane. It's when you expect to hit and miss, or you don't expect to hit and hit something on the way to your target. You are not prepare for it.

Like I said, I do enough exercise on strength. I do grip exercise every week also. I have decent grip strength compare to a lot of other people in the gym. I can only do 6 to 7 body weight pull up(175lbs), not because of my grip, my arms are the limiting factor. For grip, I can easily hang another 40lbs to 50lbs on my body and I can hold on to the bar hanging.

Problem is you do not squeeze the cane from beginning to the end of the striking arc. That will slow you down. It's like punching, you do not tighten your muscles until the point of hitting. You relax before and after the focus point. So if you hit something unexpected or miss what you try to hit, you don't necessary squeeze the cane tight away from the focusing point.

This open up a totally different can of worms.

Be aware of losing the cane by accident. It happens to the best. One of the expert here Lamont Glass ( aka Blindside here) even showed he lost his cane in the match. Look at 6:17 here:

Like I said, it's not big deal to lose the cane in a competition, but it's life and death in self defense situation. Particularly when you are nervous. I play it save, I put a loop around my wrist. I have been practicing without the loop at home, it's been months since I lose my cane. But I don't take any chance.

Also, I swing with two hands, I use a cane that is 20oz with a big foot to make it tip heavy. There's a lot of momentum to pull the cane when swinging. It's not like the rattan escrima sticks that are only about 7oz. I use a fiber filled Nylon cane.

I don't typically swing with two hands, but again for me that is a balance issue more than anything. My heaviest cane is probably a 2" diameter one made from persimmon root, but I don't use it or take it out often. I mostly stick to more typical 1"-diameter ash, oak, or acacia. That is around 12-14 ounces all told.

A nylon cane was the first kind I got after many years of using the hollow medical models. It's pretty good, but I like wood.

I have both solid aluminum and solid steel ones, just to try out those materials, but I find them prohibitively heavy for prolonged, daily walking. Although from a purely defensive standpoint, they're probably some of the heartiest I own. I said the persimmon cane was my heaviest, but that's not true, it's the solid metal ones, now that I think about it.

 

[frank raud]

cutting a steak does absolutely NOTHING to prepare someone for defending themselves with a knife. I do not agree that any weapon automatically makes any person more effective at defending themselves without any training. some people, certain weapons? yeah. a knife, no training whatsoever? probably just gonna piss him off more, and now he has a knife.

How exactly is someone going to know you have no training with a knife? 1739 people in the US were killed with a knife in 2020. Are you suggesting that ALL or even the majority of the people that killed with a knife had training? Cutting a steak, or prepping veggies means you are used to holding a knife, are comfortable having a blade in your hand. Are yoy under the belief that you could disarm someone of a knife because they " don't know how" to use a blade ?

 

[tim po]

I don't typically swing with two hands, but again for me that is a balance issue more than anything. My heaviest cane is probably a 2" diameter one made from persimmon root, but I don't use it or take it out often. I mostly stick to more typical 1"-diameter ash, oak, or acacia. That is around 12-14 ounces all told.

A nylon cane was the first kind I got after many years of using the hollow medical models. It's pretty good, but I like wood.

I have both solid aluminum and solid steel ones, just to try out those materials, but I find them prohibitively heavy for prolonged, daily walking. Although from a purely defensive standpoint, they're probably some of the heartiest I own. I said the persimmon cane was my heaviest, but that's not true, it's the solid metal ones, now that I thinkJ, if you need the cane to stand up, don't use it to strike unless you want to grapple them on the ground, which may be your best avenue of training if

How exactly is someone going to know you have no training with a knife? 1739 people in the US were killed with a knife in 2020. Are you suggesting that ALL or even the majority of the people that killed with a knife had training? Cutting a steak, or prepping veggies means you are used to holding a knife, are comfortable having a blade in your hand. Are yoy under the belief that you could disarm someone of a knife because they " don't know how" to use a blade

googling statistics to support your argument is weak. stop that.

when you cut veggies, you put your thumb on the spine of the knife, yes? most people will always hold every knife they hold that way, because thats the only way they have ever held a knife. try to fight with your thumb on the spine of your knife, you ARE going to lose that knife. especially if you attack someone....like me? or anyone on this site? because we are going to fight back, and you do not have a proper grip on that knife to use it as a weapon.
all i'm saying is that an unttrained person will not even know to grip the knife thumb-over, and won't have a clue where to even strike for immediate effect, and is better off with something easier to use, like a stungun.

 

[tim po]

googling statistics to support your argument is weak. stop that.

when you cut veggies, you put your thumb on the spine of the knife, yes? most people will always hold every knife they hold that way, because thats the only way they have ever held a knife. try to fight with your thumb on the spine of your knife, you ARE going to lose that knife. especially if you attack someone....like me? or anyone on this site? because we are going to fight back, and you do not have a proper grip on that knife to use it as a weapon.
all i'm saying is that an unttrained person will not even know to grip the knife thumb-over, and won't have a clue where to even strike for immediate effect, and is better off with something easier to use, like a stungun.

as for'How exactly is someone going to know you have no training with a knife?', if you are implying that a viable method of self defense with a knife is to draw your knife, display it before your attacker and hope to scare them away? hahaha good luck

 

[jstacy1228]

googling statistics to support your argument is weak. stop that.

when you cut veggies, you put your thumb on the spine of the knife, yes? most people will always hold every knife they hold that way, because thats the only way they have ever held a knife. try to fight with your thumb on the spine of your knife, you ARE going to lose that knife. especially if you attack someone....like me? or anyone on this site? because we are going to fight back, and you do not have a proper grip on that knife to use it as a weapon.
all i'm saying is that an unttrained person will not even know to grip the knife thumb-over, and won't have a clue where to even strike for immediate effect, and is better off with something easier to use, like a stungun.

I see there's a bit of a response to one of my posts mixed in with another response so I wanted to reply to that, although it seems to be imbedded in the quote of my post.

Standing I can do without it, but I wouldn't be able to step in any direction unless it was touching the ground.

Pretty much the only scenario in which it would be halfway useful for me is if it's a single person facing me who cannot easily get round behind me for whatever reason. Not a great number of scenarios that will work out in my favor that way, but that's just how it shakes out what with my body and all. In real terms, it would be foolish for me to engage in this manner with an attacker. I'd still probably do it if absolutely necessary, because I am not able to run faster than an attacker and the stick will already be in my hand.

But yeah, I'm aware that I'm just not built for my own defense. I think about it a lot precisely because I'm physically not able to run away, which is the best defense.

I'd still try to hit someone with the stick because it's a stick and I'll have it out, but there's a very low chance of it shaking out in my favor sans any trouble or injury, that is true enough.

Part of me wishes I did not have such a deep interest in and admiration for martial arts, and particularly the stick-based stuff. I think life would be easier.

 

[tim po]

I see there's a bit of a response to one of my posts mixed in with another response so I wanted to reply to that, although it seems to be imbedded in the quote of my post.

Standing I can do without it, but I wouldn't be able to step in any direction unless it was touching the ground.

Pretty much the only scenario in which it would be halfway useful for me is if it's a single person facing me who cannot easily get round behind me for whatever reason. Not a great number of scenarios that will work out in my favor that way, but that's just how it shakes out what with my body and all. In real terms, it would be foolish for me to engage in this manner with an attacker. I'd still probably do it if absolutely necessary, because I am not able to run faster than an attacker and the stick will already be in my hand.

But yeah, I'm aware that I'm just not built for my own defense. I think about it a lot precisely because I'm physically not able to run away, which is the best defense.

I'd still try to hit someone with the stick because it's a stick and I'll have it out, but there's a very low chance of it shaking out in my favor sans any trouble or injury, that is true enough.

Part of me wishes I did not have such a deep interest in and admiration for martial arts, and particularly the stick-based stuff. I think life would be easier.

OOPS my bad, i'm new at computers and forums, avoided internet most of my life. i started replying to you and got distracted, mixed it up!

i don't see the response i was typing to you, guess it got deleted. i was saying that striking may not be the best way to utilize your cane, if it could destabilize you. i hope you have a teacher who can work with you, you have an unusual challenge and what works best for you will have to be found by experimentation.

i have worked with one individual who had MS. he used two crutches, and could not stand without them. we worked on him using them the way many forms of Kung Fu position their feet to off-balance their opponent as they move, working against the knee and ankle, without removing the crutches from the ground. you may want to experiment with that some.

 

[Alan0354]

I don't typically swing with two hands, but again for me that is a balance issue more than anything. My heaviest cane is probably a 2" diameter one made from persimmon root, but I don't use it or take it out often. I mostly stick to more typical 1"-diameter ash, oak, or acacia. That is around 12-14 ounces all told.

A nylon cane was the first kind I got after many years of using the hollow medical models. It's pretty good, but I like wood.

I have both solid aluminum and solid steel ones, just to try out those materials, but I find them prohibitively heavy for prolonged, daily walking. Although from a purely defensive standpoint, they're probably some of the heartiest I own. I said the persimmon cane was my heaviest, but that's not true, it's the solid metal ones, now that I think about it.

For one hand, 12 to 14oz is about the heaviest you want. Of cause one can swing a 20oz+ cane with one hand, BUT how fast can they swing, also how well can they recover from a swing. It's not like sword that a lot of weight is at the handle for counter balance. Cane has to be tip heavy to generate stopping power, sword is for slicing, it doesn't have to be top heavy.

For one hand, I'd look at rattan. There's one that is strong but lighter. The Cold Steel Heavy Duty cane.
Cold Steel Heavy Duty Cane 37.5 in Overall Length 705442019183 | eBay

I bought it, the tube is strong, it's 16oz. BUT, the handle is 6oz, leaving the tube only 10oz or less( after you cut it). I don't feel it gives enough hitting power. I'd stay with Rattan. I bought a wood cane( cheap) on Amazon. It lasted a WHOPPING one minute before cracked into two when I hit the heavy bag.

I only buy rattan cane from this place:
Walking Cane, Rattan

This is the only place that sell rattan with skin, a little over 1" diameter. The guy is very nice, I had him picked out those that is over 15oz( before cutting) and over 1" diameter. When I cut down to 31" for my height, it's about 13oz. This is strong cane, it's burned harden and with skin. Be careful a lot of rattan sticks and canes are without skin, it's a different world. You have to have skin and harden to make rattan stiff and strong and heavier. Those 3/4" or even 7/8" escrama sticks are useless. Most without skin. It's only 6oz or so.

I do a lot of research on canes. The one I use is from United Cutlery Night Watchman cane:
UnitedCutlery.Com: Night Watchman Premium Adjustable Walking Cane - UC3129

This is the strongest, but too heavy for one hand as the diameter is only 7/8". Hard to hold tight with one hand.

Good Luck

 

[tim po]

OOPS my bad, i'm new at computers and forums, avoided internet most of my life. i started replying to you and got distracted, mixed it up!

i don't see the response i was typing to you, guess it got deleted. i was saying that striking may not be the best way to utilize your cane, if it could destabilize you. i hope you have a teacher who can work with you, you have an unusual challenge and what works best for you will have to be found by experimentation.

i have worked with one individual who had MS. he used two crutches, and could not stand without them. we worked on him using them the way many forms of Kung Fu position their feet to off-balance their opponent as they move, working against the knee and ankle, without removing the crutches from the ground. you may want to experiment with that some.

there are other options. just because it is a 'stick' doesn't mean hitting someone with it is the only way it can become an instrument in your defense, keep looking.

 

[jstacy1228]

OOPS my bad, i'm new at computers and forums, avoided internet most of my life. i started replying to you and got distracted, mixed it up!

i don't see the response i was typing to you, guess it got deleted. i was saying that striking may not be the best way to utilize your cane, if it could destabilize you. i hope you have a teacher who can work with you, you have an unusual challenge and what works best for you will have to be found by experimentation.

i have worked with one individual who had MS. he used two crutches, and could not stand without them. we worked on him using them the way many forms of Kung Fu position their feet to off-balance their opponent as they move, working against the knee and ankle, without removing the crutches from the ground. you may want to experiment with that some.

No worries at all! It look like a part of a response that was half-finished and ended up in the quote, but I did get the gist of what you were saying.

I've also seen a few crutch users, even at competition level, and they seem to do pretty well (whether there are different standards for them, I truly do not know).

In most cases, I think you are probably right that swinging the cane in an actual fight would be detrimental. Given its extra reach, etc, I can't say I wouldn't do it anyway on instinct, but yes, trying to use it as a tool when I need it as a walking aid can be problematic. I'm blessed not to have been in any confrontations since I was only a little kid, and even though there's plenty of time for more of that when you're a sixteen-year-old (the age I started needing a cane) I've been blessed not to be attacked by anyone. Still, my lack of mobility and interest in martial arts in general has caused me much thought about defense over the years, I will say.

If I could whack someone once or twice with the stick and hope that would give them pause, all would probably be well.

But I'm disabled and look disabled despite only being in my 30s, and I don't think most people find that too intimidating--I feel they'd probably just press the attack.

 

[jstacy1228]

For one hand, 12 to 14oz is about the heaviest you want. Of cause one can swing a 20oz+ cane with one hand, BUT how fast can they swing, also how well can they recover from a swing. It's not like sword that a lot of weight is at the handle for counter balance. Cane has to be tip heavy to generate stopping power, sword is for slicing, it doesn't have to be top heavy.

For one hand, I'd look at rattan. There's one that is strong but lighter. The Cold Steel Heavy Duty cane.
Cold Steel Heavy Duty Cane 37.5 in Overall Length 705442019183 | eBay

I bought it, the tube is strong, it's 16oz. BUT, the handle is 6oz, leaving the tube only 10oz or less( after you cut it). I don't feel it gives enough hitting power. I'd stay with Rattan. I bought a wood cane( cheap) on Amazon. It lasted a WHOPPING one minute before cracked into two when I hit the heavy bag.

I only buy rattan cane from this place:
Walking Cane, Rattan

This is the only place that sell rattan with skin, a little over 1" diameter. The guy is very nice, I had him picked out those that is over 15oz( before cutting) and over 1" diameter. When I cut down to 31" for my height, it's about 13oz. This is strong cane, it's burned harden and with skin. Be careful a lot of rattan sticks and canes are without skin, it's a different world. You have to have skin and harden to make rattan stiff and strong and heavier. Those 3/4" or even 7/8" escrama sticks are useless. Most without skin. It's only 6oz or so.

I do a lot of research on canes. The one I use is from United Cutlery Night Watchman cane:
UnitedCutlery.Com: Night Watchman Premium Adjustable Walking Cane - UC3129

This is the strongest, but too heavy for one hand as the diameter is only 7/8". Hard to hold tight with one hand.

Good Luck

The Watchman there was my first "real" cane after just not liking the standard medical ones I used for years and years. Those hollow aluminum ones made me feel old, and by that time I was only in my 20s. I like it but I think the hook is a bit wide (but it's marketed as more of a self-defense tool so I get why they did that).

Side note: it's always funny to me that Cold Steel marketed that as an "adjustable cane." It certainly is, if you use a hacksaw (which I had to do) but then, that would make any cane "adjustable" by that measure.

I've often wanted to try a rattan cane, but I haven't yet because I'm concerned it will feel too light in my hand. Not for defense necessarily, just general walking around as I do. I had occasion once or twice to have to go back to lightweight canes like the usual medical ones, and it was very difficult to get used to that kind of weight again--threw off my gait completely till I could switch back to something with heft.

 

[frank raud]

googling statistics to support your argument is weak. stop that.

when you cut veggies, you put your thumb on the spine of the knife, yes? most people will always hold every knife they hold that way, because thats the only way they have ever held a knife. try to fight with your thumb on the spine of your knife, you ARE going to lose that knife. especially if you attack someone....like me? or anyone on this site? because we are going to fight back, and you do not have a proper grip on that knife to use it as a weapon.
all i'm saying is that an unttrained person will not even know to grip the knife thumb-over, and won't have a clue where to even strike for immediate effect, and is better off with something easier to use, like a stungun.

Ok, let's leave facts out of this, obviously you can handle that based on your response. I don't put my thumb on the spine of a blade when I use a paring knife to peel potatoes, a bread knife to cut a loaf of bread or a cake, or a sandwich. I don't do it when I whittle, or cut a chunk of an apple and eat it of the knife. If your entire argument is there is only one way to hold a knife when you use it in daily life life, and it is so structurally weak that anyone can grab the blade and remove it from your grip, you have a long way to go to convince me. You haven't said how you , as a theoretically trained martial artist will disarm someone with a knife. You definitely haven't said how your average street thug, without the benefit of your training will disarm someone of a knife.

The reason I compared a knife to a three sectional staff is without any training, you can slash and stab. Having used a knife daily, you know enough to hold on tightly when you stab, just like you do when cutting a watermelon. Pointy end goes in other guy works day after day. We can get fancy with the blade, or simple. It still cuts, it still kills. Knife training isn't magic.. it makes something already deadly more efficient. How much training does it take?

I would be more confident that a person, any person could defend themselves better with a knife, without training than any other weapon (possible exception of a gun) without training. I would also say it would be harder to disarm a knife than any other weapon.