Easy to Carry, Easy to Use Self Defense Weapons

[tim po]

Ok, let's leave facts out of this, obviously you can handle that based on your response. I don't put my thumb on the spine of a blade when I use a paring knife to peel potatoes, a bread knife to cut a loaf of bread or a cake, or a sandwich. I don't do it when I whittle, or cut a chunk of an apple and eat it of the knife. If your entire argument is there is only one way to hold a knife when you use it in daily life life, and it is so structurally weak that anyone can grab the blade and remove it from your grip, you have a long way to go to convince me. You haven't said how you , as a theoretically trained martial artist will disarm someone with a knife. You definitely haven't said how your average street thug, without the benefit of your training will disarm someone of a knife.

The reason I compared a knife to a three sectional staff is without any training, you can slash and stab. Having used a knife daily, you know enough to hold on tightly when you stab, just like you do when cutting a watermelon. Pointy end goes in other guy works day after day. We can get fancy with the blade, or simple. It still cuts, it still kills. Knife training isn't magic.. it makes something already deadly more efficient. How much training does it take?

I would be more confident that a person, any person could defend themselves better with a knife, without training than any other weapon (possible exception of a gun) without training. I would also say it would be harder to disarm a knife than any other weapon.

heh. well first off, i'm not assuming that YOU don't know how to hold a knife, we're talking no training joe here. most (non-kitchen) knives are designed(square handle, ridges for placement of the thumb on the spine) to be held with the thumb on the spine. this is the correct way to hold a knife, to whittle, or peel a potato.

the question here is whether it is good advice to carry a knife for self-defense if they do not have any training.

can an untrained person fend off an attack with a knife? you bet! can an untrained person beat the snot out of an attacker bare handed! yes, happens all the time! is it likely that with no training a person will fail to defend themselves if outmatched by their attacker(with or without a knife)? yes. only if you drew a knife, it now may belong to your attacker.

a person who does not know the first thing about self defense with a knife(imo, tied for first between how to hold the knife properly, and why never to show your knife to the attacker before they realize they are bleeding) runs the risk of making things worse. if unwilling to learn a few things, people should stick with OTC deterrents.

if someone drew a knife on me, even from 3' away, who failed to recognize the (tied for ) first rules mentioned above, that knife would be in my hands before they could blink. think about it.

 

[tim po]

No worries at all! It look like a part of a response that was half-finished and ended up in the quote, but I did get the gist of what you were saying.

I've also seen a few crutch users, even at competition level, and they seem to do pretty well (whether there are different standards for them, I truly do not know).

In most cases, I think you are probably right that swinging the cane in an actual fight would be detrimental. Given its extra reach, etc, I can't say I wouldn't do it anyway on instinct, but yes, trying to use it as a tool when I need it as a walking aid can be problematic. I'm blessed not to have been in any confrontations since I was only a little kid, and even though there's plenty of time for more of that when you're a sixteen-year-old (the age I started needing a cane) I've been blessed not to be attacked by anyone. Still, my lack of mobility and interest in martial arts in general has caused me much thought about defense over the years, I will say.

If I could whack someone once or twice with the stick and hope that would give them pause, all would probably be well.

But I'm disabled and look disabled despite only being in my 30s, and I don't think most people find that too intimidating--I feel they'd probably just press the attack.

no matter what is in your hand, the will to survive is the most powerful weapon. never give up, never stop fighting. keep exploring ways to use your cane to your advantage, even when that means using it to stabilize yourself while you defend, it is still a part of you.

 

[Alan0354]

The Watchman there was my first "real" cane after just not liking the standard medical ones I used for years and years. Those hollow aluminum ones made me feel old, and by that time I was only in my 20s. I like it but I think the hook is a bit wide (but it's marketed as more of a self-defense tool so I get why they did that).

Side note: it's always funny to me that Cold Steel marketed that as an "adjustable cane." It certainly is, if you use a hacksaw (which I had to do) but then, that would make any cane "adjustable" by that measure.

I've often wanted to try a rattan cane, but I haven't yet because I'm concerned it will feel too light in my hand. Not for defense necessarily, just general walking around as I do. I had occasion once or twice to have to go back to lightweight canes like the usual medical ones, and it was very difficult to get used to that kind of weight again--threw off my gait completely till I could switch back to something with heft.

Order from Valley Martial Arts from the link I provided in my last post. Their rattan canes are not light and very sturdy. I trust them more than the wood canes. I can lean my whole body weight on it. I have 5 of them.
This is an old picture of my canes collection, except the last on on the right, the 3 rattans are from Valley Martial Arts.

I since bought two heavier and thicker rattan canes from them:

I stain them all dark brown. I don't like the burn rings. I am trying out new foots, when I find a good hard one, I'll post it.

You see in the picture I have two Cold Steel City walking stick. They came with fancy silver knobs for handle, I made my own handle and replace them to make the canes look "ordinary" so they don't attract attention. They are expensive. You see I have all the Nylon canes. I bought 3 more since. I cut it to different length as I get stronger. I don't have any wood cane, I don't trust them, they crack. I'd be worry to put my weight on wood canes, you don't know what direction is the wood grain, if it doesn't follow the curve, it will break if you put weight on the handle. They bend the rattan to create the curve, there is no weak spot. Email to Valley Martial Arts, you can ask for the weight and diameter and the owner will try to choose one for you. Like the last two I bought, it's about 13oz after I cut to 32" long. It's right at the range of your wood canes. They are strong.

I wrap the tip with rubber foam on some of them for hitting the heavy bag. I don't want to destroy my heavy kicking bags, it's for protection of the heavy bags.

Ha ha, today is my off day, I don't have to do anything. That's why I can talk and talk here!!!

 

[jstacy1228]

no matter what is in your hand, the will to survive is the most powerful weapon. never give up, never stop fighting. keep exploring ways to use your cane to your advantage, even when that means using it to stabilize yourself while you defend, it is still a part of you.

Yep. I'm coming up on 34 years just after Christmas, so I've now spent over half my life with a cane in my hand than without. It's weird to think about, honestly. The feeling of not needing to have a cane to move around is something that's getting tough to remember, honestly. I try my best to make peace with the cane being a part of me. I should feel fortunate that it's all I need to get around.

 

[jstacy1228]

Order from Valley Martial Arts from the link I provided in my last post. Their rattan canes are not light and very sturdy. I trust them more than the wood canes. I can lean my whole body weight on it. I have 5 of them.
This is an old picture of my canes collection, except the last on on the right, the 3 rattans are from Valley Martial Arts.
View attachment 27738

I since bought two heavier and thicker rattan canes from them:
View attachment 27739

I stain them all dark brown. I don't like the burn rings. I am trying out new foots, when I find a good hard one, I'll post it.

You see in the picture I have two Cold Steel City walking stick. They came with fancy silver knobs for handle, I made my own handle and replace them to make the canes look "ordinary" so they don't attract attention. They are expensive. You see I have all the Nylon canes. I bought 3 more since. I cut it to different length as I get stronger.

I wrap the tip with rubber foam on some of them for hitting the heavy bag. I don't want to destroy my heavy kicking bags, it's for protection of the heavy bags.

Funnily enough I didn't like the scorched effect for the longest time, but now I am sort of digging it and want to try it, although at this point I still don't own a scorched one yet. Mine are black or brown, except for the ones made from tree roots which retain their natural color. I have some red ones I like, but I don't take them out often as I'm told they look a bit silly, which I suppose is true.

 

[Oily Dragon]

when you cut veggies, you put your thumb on the spine of the knife, yes?

No.

 

[Alan0354]

heh. well first off, i'm not assuming that YOU don't know how to hold a knife, we're talking no training joe here. most (non-kitchen) knives are designed(square handle, ridges for placement of the thumb on the spine) to be held with the thumb on the spine. this is the correct way to hold a knife, to whittle, or peel a potato.

the question here is whether it is good advice to carry a knife for self-defense if they do not have any training.

can an untrained person fend off an attack with a knife? you bet! can an untrained person beat the snot out of an attacker bare handed! yes, happens all the time! is it likely that with no training a person will fail to defend themselves if outmatched by their attacker(with or without a knife)? yes. only if you drew a knife, it now may belong to your attacker.

a person who does not know the first thing about self defense with a knife(imo, tied for first between how to hold the knife properly, and why never to show your knife to the attacker before they realize they are bleeding) runs the risk of making things worse. if unwilling to learn a few things, people should stick with OTC deterrents.

if someone drew a knife on me, even from 3' away, who failed to recognize the (tied for ) first rules mentioned above, that knife would be in my hands before they could blink. think about it.

It is completely different cutting stuffs in the kitchen vs fighting!!! You cut stuffs on the chopping board in kitchen, you stick, slash and stab in fighting, how are these have anything to do with cutting in kitchen?

Before I got into stick fight with cane, I did buy pocket knifes, I practice slashing vertically from high to low, 45deg down from left to right, right to left. Then 45 deg up from left to right and right to left. I practice horizontal slashing. Then I had to practice sticking and stabbing.

More importantly, I have to have footwork just like punching and others, step in to attack, step back or side after the attack to get out of reach from the opponent.............

How are these have anything to do with kitchen cutting stuffs?

 

[tim po]

It is completely different cutting stuffs in the kitchen vs fighting!!! You cut stuffs on the chopping board in kitchen, you stick, slash and stab in fighting, how are these have anything to do with cutting in kitchen?

Before I got into stick fight with cane, I did buy pocket knifes, I practice slashing vertically from high to low, 45deg down from left to right, right to left. Then 45 deg up from left to right and right to left. I practice horizontal slashing. Then I had to practice sticking and stabbing.

More importantly, I have to have footwork just like punching and others, step in to attack, step back or side after the attack to get out of reach from the opponent.............

How are these have anything to do with kitchen cutting stuffs?

read back. i am being criticized for suggesting that a knife is a dangerous choice for a self-defense carry if a person has no training. Aparently, since everybody handles knives in their kitchen everyday, clearly we all know how to handle a knife well enough to effectively use one for self defense, right?

 

[frank raud]

It is completely different cutting stuffs in the kitchen vs fighting!!! You cut stuffs on the chopping board in kitchen, you stick, slash and stab in fighting, how are these have anything to do with cutting in kitchen?

Before I got into stick fight with cane, I did buy pocket knifes, I practice slashing vertically from high to low, 45deg down from left to right, right to left. Then 45 deg up from left to right and right to left. I practice horizontal slashing. Then I had to practice sticking and stabbing.

More importantly, I have to have footwork just like punching and others, step in to attack, step back or side after the attack to get out of reach from the opponent.............

How are these have anything to do with kitchen cutting stuffs?

You have to have footwork to make a knife work? There are many situations where you can't step, and surprise,surprise, the knife still cuts. Is it difficult to understand that you know how to use a knife, because you use a knife? As I have already said, a knife is deadly without any special training (is that a contentious issue?), but training will make it more efficient. Is that too difficult a concept to grasp? Do people regularly use knives in self defense situations without any special "knife fighting" training? How could they possibly do that if "knife fighting" training is an absolute requirement? A large part of using a weapon, any weapon effectively is being comfortable with the weapon. Familiarity helps. Is there another weapon you have spent more time with than a knife? Apparently statistics are a weak argument, so rather than post numbers, let's ask a simple question. Do you truly doubt that an untrained person with a knife is essentially defenseless, and what do you think are the odds of said person being disarmed.
Bonus points, if you're grappling with someone, standup or on the ground, would you rather be untrained with a knife, or untrained with a cane?

 

[lklawson]

cutting a steak does absolutely NOTHING to prepare someone for defending themselves with a knife.

Sure it does. You learn how to cut.

I do not agree that any weapon automatically makes any person more effective at defending themselves without any training. some people, certain weapons? yeah. a knife, no training whatsoever? probably just gonna piss him off more, and now he has a knife.

Well, you're free to be wrong.

 

[lklawson]

googling statistics to support your argument is weak. stop that.

This is intended as satire, right?

 

[lklawson]

I've often wanted to try a rattan cane, but I haven't yet because I'm concerned it will feel too light in my hand. Not for defense necessarily, just general walking around as I do. I

Not all rattan is the same. There are different breeds, some are more dense.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[frank raud]

I just finished shaving with my straight razor. How many seconds did it take for you to figure out this would be better for slashing than stabbing? And you have "no" training.

 

[frank raud]

Screwdriver set. Vector. stock vector. Illustration of repair - 55551585

Illustration about Screwdriver set. Different types. Vector illustration. Illustration of repair, screwdriver, hand - 55551585

www.dreamstime.com

How long did it take you to realize a screwdriver is better for stabbing than slashing? And you have "no" training

 

[lklawson]

most (non-kitchen) knives are designed(square handle, ridges for placement of the thumb on the spine)

This is demonstrably not true.
How many of these have square handles or jimping on the spine?

kitchen knives at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

to be held with the thumb on the spine.

This is demonstrably not true.
Heck, just ask Chefs who say that thumb on the spine is "not common" and "the least popular"

How to Hold A Kitchen Knife – 3 Correct Ways

kitchenknifeplanet.com

this is the correct way to hold a knife, to whittle, or peel a potato.

This is demonstrably not true.

How to Peel Potatoes With and Without a Peeler

Learn to peel potatoes with or without a peelerSo you're planning on making some mashed potatoes or potato salad, and you want to peel your potatoes quickly, easily, and safely. You've come to the right place! We've compiled a complete...

www.wikihow.com

if someone drew a knife on me, even from 3' away, who failed to recognize the (tied for ) first rules mentioned above, that knife would be in my hands before they could blink. think about it.

I have. And I think you're over-estimating your abilities.

 

[frank raud]

https://www.grainger.ca/en/product/p/RCHC4?gclid=Cj0KCQiAweaNBhDEARIsAJ5hwbfzv_7Af6U5zyzSsbPdMIXRznwiBOJbPbmy79xqt-Hbi-3e2UnJkSEaArs-EALw_wcB&cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&ef_id=Cj0KCQiAweaNBhDEARIsAJ5hwbfzv_7Af6U5zyzSsbPdMIXRznwiBOJbPbmy79xqt-Hbi-3e2UnJkSEaArs-EALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3645!3!539417265070!!!g!1405298832624!

How long did it take you to figure out a hawkbill knife is better for slashing than stabbing? And you have "no" training.

 

[frank raud]

I did buy pocket knifes, I practice slashing vertically from high to low, 45deg down from left to right, right to left. Then 45 deg up from left to right and right to left. I practice horizontal slashing. Then I had to practice sticking and stabbing.

More importantly, I have to have footwork just like punching and others, step in to attack, step back or side after the attack to get out of reach from the opponent.............

You're thinking of knife fighting, which is different than fighting with a knife

 

[jstacy1228]

Not all rattan is the same. There are different breeds, some are more dense.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

That's good to know; I did not realize that. I'm familiar with how some hardwoods like ash or oak should feel in my hand, but I have no experience with rattan at all yet, I just like the appearance. TIL there are different breeds. Very cool.

 

[Alan0354]

That's good to know; I did not realize that. I'm familiar with how some hardwoods like ash or oak should feel in my hand, but I have no experience with rattan at all yet, I just like the appearance. TIL there are different breeds. Very cool.

I gave you a good source of rattan with skin, dense. 13 to 14oz rattan of length of 31" is heavy compare to a lot of others. The heavier, the denser. I did a lot of research and bought a lot of canes to try out.

 

[jstacy1228]

I gave you a good source of rattan with skin, dense. 13 to 14oz rattan of length of 31" is heavy compare to a lot of others. The heavier, the denser. I did a lot of research and bought a lot of canes to try out.

Oh yeah I've bookmarked that site thank you. Possibly after the holidays I'll be able to get one of those and try it out.