Dynamic stretching for hip flexors?

[exile]

I've been experimenting with a kind of different exercise from anything I've done before. It's a strength/stretching exercise for hip flexors, which are notoriously difficult to target directly. I've had very good results with Thomas Kurz's dynamic stretching approach, but he talks pretty much entirely about stretching with full kick-like extensions. What I've been trying is more like this:

You start facing N., say, bring the kicking leg up straight in front of you, and pivot on the standing leg somewhere between 90º and 110º—let's say counterclockwise. You terminate the pivot with your kicking leg still in the raised position, kneecap facing the ceiling, and the toes of your standing leg foot point just a little below W. Now you rotate your raised kicking leg 90º toward the floor, maintaining the completely bent configuration, so that your kneecap is now facing W. as well. You hold this position—call it position 1—for five seconds, then rotate your bent knee in towards your standing leg until they meet (all the time, of course, your kneecap continues to face W.) This is position 2. You then drive your bent knee back up to position 1, then back down to position 2, and so on, for 20 reps, trying to extend the height of the bent leg each time. Then do the same thing on the the other side, so the kicking leg becomes the standing leg and vice versa.

The idea is that this is a dynamic stretch, like a front stretch kick, but because you've got your leg completely bent in the pre-thrust chambering position, you can't use your quads, or any other leg muscle, to assist with the lifting; the only muscles involved are the hip flexors themselves. I'm a fan of the big compound exercises, but the hip flexors are a different story—I don't think compound exercises work them at all, and with something like a front or side stretch kick, it feels altogether too easy to let the work be taken over by the big leg muscles and use momentum to drive the kick up, no matter how much control you try to exert over the movement. This exercise, by contrast, seems to put the burden 100% on the flexors themselves.

Has anyone else experimented with this kind of stretch before?

 

[terryl965]

I've been experimenting with a kind of different exercise from anything I've done before. It's a strength/stretching exercise for hip flexors, which are notoriously difficult to target directly. I've had very good results with Thomas Kurz's dynamic stretching approach, but he talks pretty much entirely about stretching with full kick-like extensions. What I've been trying is more like this:

You start facing N., say, bring the kicking leg up straight in front of you, and pivot on the standing leg somewhere between 90º and 110º—let's say counterclockwise. You terminate the pivot with your kicking leg still in the raised position, kneecap facing the ceiling, and the toes of your standing leg foot point just a little below W. Now you rotate your raised kicking leg 90º toward the floor, maintaining the completely bent configuration, so that your kneecap is now facing W. as well. You hold this position—call it position 1—for five seconds, then rotate your bent knee in towards your standing leg until they meet (all the time, of course, your kneecap continues to face W.) This is position 2. You then drive your bent knee back up to position 1, then back down to position 2, and so on, for 20 reps, trying to extend the height of the bent leg each time. Then do the same thing on the the other side, so the kicking leg becomes the standing leg and vice versa.

The idea is that this is a dynamic stretch, like a front stretch kick, but because you've got your leg completely bent in the pre-thrust chambering position, you can't use your quads, or any other leg muscle, to assist with the lifting; the only muscles involved are the hip flexors themselves. I'm a fan of the big compound exercises, but the hip flexors are a different story—I don't think compound exercises work them at all, and with something like a front or side stretch kick, it feels altogether too easy to let the work be taken over by the big leg muscles and use momentum to drive the kick up, no matter how much control you try to exert over the movement. This exercise, by contrast, seems to put the burden 100% on the flexors themselves.

Has anyone else experimented with this kind of stretch before?

Yes Yolanda does them with the class about three times a week, I do not recall where she learned them and from who. But as you know Exile she is big on getting people streched out form day one.

 

[exile]

Yes Yolanda does them with the class about three times a week, I do not recall where she learned them and from who. But as you know Exile she is big on getting people streched out form day one.

Thanks, Terry, that's good to know! Yes, Yolanda's workouts are the first and last word in stretching for TKD, in my book... I figure if she does this stretch as part of her workout, it's got to be useful!

I'm thinking that the next logical stage might be to use leg weights on the kicking leg—not worn low around the ankle, but much higher, right below the calf, say, so as not to make the knee a pivot point for a weight near the foot—I suspect that wouldn't be good for your knee, and it might also bring in extra complications into which muscles were working. But it the weights were very high up on the lower leg, close to the knee, then it would just be like making your whole bent-leg assembly a bit heavier and would stress the flexors still more....

 

[newGuy12]

Thanks, Terry, that's good to know! Yes, Yolanda's workouts are the first and last word in stretching for TKD, in my book... I figure if she does this stretch as part of her workout, it's got to be useful!

Has Yolanda published any information on the world wide web about these stretching methods?

 

[terryl965]

Has Yolanda published any information on the world wide web about these stretching methods?

No but she has been working on getting a video together for Exile and Mbuzzy and morph from the last meet and greet. When she gets done with it I will send one to people that would like one.

 

[newGuy12]

Oh, that would be good!

 

[exile]

No but she has been working on getting a video together for Exile and Mbuzzy and morph from the last meet and greet. When she gets done with it I will send one to people that would like one.

Hey, Terry, that's outstanding!!

 

[terryl965]

Hey, Terry, that's outstanding!!

she is also going to do a e-mag article for MT here so hopefully she will have thatdone by December.

 

[MBuzzy]

I was just thinking about that the other day, Terry....I've been doing two of those stretches every day and it has DEFINATELY made a difference. Add that in with my new Versaflex stretcher thing and I'm making big progress.

I'd actually like to see some pictures of Exile's method. I think I've got it, but I'm not sure from the description.

 

[exile]

I was just thinking about that the other day, Terry....I've been doing two of those stretches every day and it has DEFINATELY made a difference. Add that in with my new Versaflex stretcher thing and I'm making big progress.

I'd actually like to see some pictures of Exile's method. I think I've got it, but I'm not sure from the description.

I wish I had all the technological bits at my fingertips.... remember, though, I was born before the middle of the last century! :uhohh:... the idea is, you get into a position where your kicking leg is chambered high, bent so the lower leg and the thigh are tight against each other, and parallel to the floor. Now instead of kicking, drop the whole chambered leg assembly so it bangs into your standing leg, then bring it back up to the position where it's parallel to the floor... or higher if possible. Really drive it, but in complete control, as per Kurz's requirements: no ballistic movements. Drop it down again, then back up... and so on.

The pivoting part is a useful drill in itself that I got from Shesulsa in a different thread. The way I described it in my OP is actually a very compact way of drilling four things: (i) balance during the pivot phase; (ii) hip flexor strength; (iii) hip flexor flexibility, and (iv) balance during the chambering phase immediately before the kick. The best part is, you need almost no space to do it in. Experimental studies have revealed that a moderately large walk-in closet has all the room you need to do this exercise in... :lol:

 

[newGuy12]

I was just thinking about that the other day, Terry....I've been doing two of those stretches every day and it has DEFINATELY made a difference. Add that in with my new Versaflex stretcher thing and I'm making big progress.

I'd actually like to see some pictures of Exile's method. I think I've got it, but I'm not sure from the description.

No joke? Well, now, looks like we may be in for a treat!

 

[Laurentkd]

Exile,

OK, after your first post I thought it was it start sort of like a chambered front kick, and then you turn it so it is like a chambered roundhouse (or there abouts?). For some reason that is what I gathered from your first post about it and tried it out a little last night.
But now I am wondering if it is really like a chambered roundhouse the whole time and you just lower and raise it in that position (what would that be....some sort of transverse abduction/adduction, but with your knee flexed and leg parallel to the floor?)

Am I anywhere close?

 

[exile]

Exile,

OK, after your first post I thought it was it start sort of like a chambered front kick, and then you turn it so it is like a chambered roundhouse (or there abouts?). For some reason that is what I gathered from your first post about it and tried it out a little last night.
But now I am wondering if it is really like a chambered roundhouse the whole time and you just lower and raise it in that position (what would that be....some sort of transverse abduction/adduction, but with your knee flexed and leg parallel to the floor?)

Am I anywhere close?

Very close, Lauren—the part in bold is a nice summary of it. There is no actual kick: you stay in the prekick chamber and raise and lower the flexed `kicking' leg, trying for a little extra height each time. It helps strengthen the hip flexors (which are very hard to target using anything in a gym, at least in the way that MAs need to use them), and also stretches them (for guys especially, this is a major problem: the generally looser articulation of women's joints gives them a... leg up, lol, in these high chambers that you need for kicks to upper body targets; for men, getting that height is way harder in general). The kicking leg is completely flexed, so any muscles which you might call on along the leg itself are taken out of play: you have to do the lifting and lowering using the hip flexors alone. If you use let weights set very high on the lower leg, you get an intensification of the effect. Ideally, I think, you'd like weights that you wrap around your thigh, to take any possible stress of the knee joint, but I've never seen leg weights designed wide enough to go around your upper leg.