Don't tell them you know martial arts

[ballen0351]

You must be in a very liberal state. Anyway, things need to change in regard to that, wherever you're at.

Why? You dont want to be charged stay out of fights its really not hard. Ive managed to do it for decades other then at work

 

[drop bear]

If only the USA would become more like Australia in the use of force.

I say the same thing.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Why? You dont want to be charged stay out of fights its really not hard. Ive managed to do it for decades other then at work

Depends where you're at. If you're in college fights are almost guaranteed. As I said earlier, college is a zoo.

 

[drop bear]

The question was asked as a Law Enforcement officer how would you subdue a combative suspect the potions were choke or strikes. The answer is neither as a Law Enforcement officer Id use a taser.

2ndly the taser is just as relevant as unarmed defense if not more relevant since used properly can be a great equalizer.

And that is what is wrong with law enforcement. And why police can't put an armlock on a guy anymore.

Seriously I saw two cops do it the other night. And the guy wasn't even resisting much.

 

[drop bear]

Depends where you're at. If you're in college fights are almost guaranteed. As I said earlier, college is a zoo.

Which I understand. There is sometimes a level of badness needed to keep the wolves off you.

 

[ballen0351]

And that is what is wrong with law enforcement. And why police can't put an armlock on a guy anymore.

I had no idea you were an expert on law enforcement tactics in the US please tell me more

 

[ballen0351]

Which I understand. There is sometimes a level of badness needed to keep the wolves off you.

Oh boy I feel a Murph story coming on

 

[Drose427]

The never go to ground is a classical street sport distinction.

The solution seems to be head stomping to a fairly major extent.

For something that is never used it sure gets demonstrated a lot.

Why in the world would a striking style ( or any non-newaza style for that matter) NOT teach staying on your feet?

Unless you have BJJ or submission training its suicide..... its got nothing to do with Street sport.

Where exactly are you thinking its demonstrated a lot? XD

 

[drop bear]

I had no idea you were an expert on law enforcement tactics in the US please tell me more

I just call it like I see it. And yes too much tool reliance. Not enough common sense.

 

[PhotonGuy]

In this state your 1st duty is to leave not defend yourself. Every state is different this one both of you could be charged

In addition to what I said before I would like to say this. Duty to retreat is ridiculous. If Im in a public place I have as much as a right to be there as he does and I shouldn't have to leave. It is just outright absurd that I should be required to run.

 

[Drose427]

So again, are you saying that arts like Krav never teach students to stomp or punch a downed opponent? In every Krav vid i've posted, they're hitting downed targets.



Again, you did;

To further add to this point,

Well then I apologize for that post

But still,

If you catch them pre shot like that and connect HARD, that will absolutely stop them.

We've seen fighters in MMa get hit with strikes like that while going for a leg or clinch and ger dropped. What do you think will happen to the average joe?

I do it to many of my BJJ friends who dont set up takedowns properly.

Mid shot, eh maybe. Really only if you're lucky enough to hit the button on the chin and put them on their back. Usually at that point its hard to extend properly and makes it significantly less effective.





No thats not what I said. Heck one of those videos very blatantly is focusing on combative......

Mild Brain damage can begin to seep in in as little as one minute without blood flow to bring it oxygen, I've seen very few people start to pass out in bragged 3-5 secs. Its nearly always closer to 20-25, even at the gracie school I go to every now and then.

not to mention theyre worse for anemics.

Also note how I said "extra seconds" because you know, not letting go after they already passed out was what I was talking about, not overall choke time.

Heres one vide of various chokes in Street Fights.

In a couple parts ( the headlock and rear naked specifically) the guys get close to the 20 sec mark without passing out, they start to tap, but arent out. Since theyre tapping, theyre obviously having a hard time breathing. If theyve gone that long without much air already, its pretty dang plausible theyll be close to that danger zone of brain damage before they complete go limp. Awake or not thats lack of oxygen

 

[drop bear]

Why in the world would a striking style ( or any non-newaza style for that matter) NOT teach staying on your feet?

Unless you have BJJ or submission training its suicide..... its got nothing to do with Street sport.

Where exactly are you thinking its demonstrated a lot? XD

I don't have the credit for bulk YouTube at the moment. I just assume you found videos without head stomps.

But then from an image on the first on we are going to ground. I assume the relevant ground skill is taught and that wasn't a technically terrible knee ride?

 

[ballen0351]

I just call it like I see it. And yes too much tool reliance. Not enough common sense.

So tell please tell me what training in use of force policy and 4th amendment and supreme court case law used by US Law Enforcement and what training with tools like the taser you have to make that brilliant opinion

 

[ballen0351]

In addition to what I said before I would like to say this. Duty to retreat is ridiculous. If Im in a public place I have as much as a right to be there as he does and I shouldn't have to leave. It is just outright absurd that I should be required to run.

It's outright absurd you would rather stay and fight it out because your pride got hurt. Me I'm taking my kids, telling the upset dude I'm sorry and I'm leaving.

 

[PhotonGuy]

It's outright absurd you would rather stay and fight it out because your pride got hurt. Me I'm taking my kids, telling the upset dude I'm sorry and I'm leaving.

If its a public place I have as much of a right to be there as he does. Depending on the situation for some reason(s) I might want to stay. Im not saying I necessarily would always stay, but I shouldn't be required to run.

 

[Drose427]

I don't have the credit for bulk YouTube at the moment. I just assume you found videos without head stomps.

But then from an image on the first on we are going to ground. I assume the relevant ground skill is taught and that wasn't a technically terrible knee ride?

The first was police combatitves, which has some degree of wrestling typically.

But my point,

the ground and pound until attacker is dead

isnt taught in the civilian world anywhere near as much as people assume.

If I've already hurt you enough to put you on your bum, you're no longer a serious threat (unless you go for a weapon, get back up to attack again, etc)

I can walk/run away, call for help, etc.

No one teaching proper SD is having their guys extend the incident by staying on a guy who isnt a threat anymore

 

[drop bear]

So tell please tell me what training in use of force policy and 4th amendment and supreme court case law used by US Law Enforcement and what training with tools like the taser you have to make that brilliant opinion

None. I make do without the tazer,cuffs,gun and Legal protections.

 

[Hanzou]

Well then I apologize for that post

But still,

If you catch them pre shot like that and connect HARD, that will absolutely stop them.

Except the chances of you ever catching someone like that pre-shot is slim to none. ESPECIALLY if the person pulling the shot on you knows what they're doing.

Check out some wrestling tutorials on shooting for the legs, or tutorials on football tackling and then compare it to that laughable garbage in that Krav video. No one shoots or tackles like that except for compliant partners in bad martial arts videos.

We've seen fighters in MMa get hit with strikes like that while going for a leg or clinch and ger dropped. What do you think will happen to the average joe?

Yes, once in a blue moon. It also helps that the person doing the striking also has solid takedown defense which allows them to stay up while the takedown is taking place. If the only thing you're learning is how to strike out of a takedown without actually learning takedown defense, you're wasting your time.

I do it to many of my BJJ friends who dont set up takedowns properly.

That isn't surprising considering that you have years of wrestling experience, which actually makes you a better takedown artist than they are. You can't compare yourself to a typical martial artist who has zero wrestling experience.

No thats not what I said. Heck one of those videos very blatantly is focusing on combative......

Mild Brain damage can begin to seep in in as little as one minute without blood flow to bring it oxygen, I've seen very few people start to pass out in bragged 3-5 secs. Its nearly always closer to 20-25, even at the gracie school I go to every now and then.

It's nearly always closer to 20-25 seconds? Are you serious?

In this vid here, Jones chokes out Machida in a little over10 seconds. Machida is a professional martial artist in prime condition.

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

In this vid, the boy goes limp in about 8 seconds after the choke is applied at around the 23 second mark.

I don't know what Gracie school you're attending, but someone isn't doing chokes properly.

Also note how I said "extra seconds" because you know, not letting go after they already passed out was what I was talking about, not overall choke time.

Yeah, and like I said, letting go a few seconds after someone passes out isn't going to cause permanent damage. Not letting go after 30 seconds to a minute after passing out is a different situation altogether.

 

[Drose427]

Except the chances of you ever catching someone like that pre-shot is slim to none. ESPECIALLY if the person pulling the shot on you knows what they're doing.

Check out some wrestling tutorials on shooting for the legs, or tutorials on football tackling and then compare it to that laughable garbage in that Krav video. No one shoots or tackles like that except for compliant partners in bad martial arts videos.



Yes, once in a blue moon. It also helps that the person doing the striking also has solid takedown defense which allows them to stay up while the takedown is taking place. If the only thing you're learning is how to strike out of a takedown without actually learning takedown defense, you're wasting your time.



That isn't surprising considering that you have years of wrestling experience, which actually makes you a better takedown artist than they are. You can't compare yourself to a typical martial artist who has zero wrestling experience.




It's nearly always closer to 20-25 seconds? Are you serious?

In this vid here, Jones chokes out Machida in a little over10 seconds. Machida is a professional martial artist in prime condition.

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

In this vid, the boy goes limp in about 8 seconds after the choke is applied at around the 23 second mark.

I don't know what Gracie school you're attending, but someone isn't doing chokes properly.



Yeah, and like I said, letting go a few seconds after someone passes out isn't going to cause permanent damage. Not letting go after 30 seconds to a minute after passing out is a different situation altogether.

Its actually a heck of a lot simpler than you think considering people are trained to throw a push kick the second an attacker moves in shot or not....You arent magically out of the way because youre shooting (unless youre going outside) your levels just changed.

Again, you didnt read what I said, I conceded if theyre already inside and started the takedown you cant kick.

And my grappling experience means little when Im not catching, or sprawling. Im just stuff them with strikes the second they try to come inside until theyre close enough that I cant.

and I posted a compilation video where several people didnt even start to tap for 15-20 seconds, nevermind going limp

The magical 5-10 seconds before passing out doesnt apply to everyone, I've seen wrestlers stay in a perfect headlock being choked out for half a period and still not pass out.

And one more time, not everyone passes out at that 5-10 second mark, thats your disconnect here. Even with grapplers who have proper technique, peoples bodies are different.

If it takes a guy 45 seconds to go limp and few extra secs before you let go youre dangerously close to the minute mark of brain cell death ( according to U of M's transplant center) TransWeb.org

The 4 minute mark we all know and love is the code red danger zone of permanent severe damage, damage can start well before that

 

[Steve]

If you can deescalate and don't even try, then you're the problem, and I hope you get to spend a few years in an 8'x10' cell with a hairy backed knuckle dragging mouth breather named Bubba who wants to be your special friend.

There is never a valid reason to resort to force against someone who is not an immediate threat. Never.

Never is a pretty absolute statement. But I guess it depends on how you define "immediate threat."

Depends where you're at. If you're in college fights are almost guaranteed. As I said earlier, college is a zoo.

i didn't even get into an argument in college. What the hell are you doing at college that you're getting into fights all the time?