Does this happen in this day and age?

[Sylo]

I'm not sure this is even real. But I found it the other day surfing for black belt testing videos.

I thought maybe you guys could help me analyze it, to see if this ever happens or is even legt. What art is it?

Mod Note: Content Warning - Language

 

[Twin Fist]

well, itis a japanese karate style, i can tell that, dont recognize the kata or the patches tho

but, sylo, it didnt look all that out of bounds for a black belt test. In our school, you fight till you pass out. if that is 15 or 30 fights, so be it. The lack of gear is odd, but thats common in japanese dojo. Same with the low kicks to the legs. In some japanese schools that normal.

what struck you as being so unbelievable?

 

[Tez3]

well, itis a japanese karate style, i can tell that, dont recognize the kata or the patches tho

but, sylo, it didnt look all that out of bounds for a black belt test.

I don't recognise the style either but it looks like normal semi contact sparring to me, as TF says about right for a BB grading.

 

[Sylo]

well, itis a japanese karate style, i can tell that, dont recognize the kata or the patches tho

but, sylo, it didnt look all that out of bounds for a black belt test. In our school, you fight till you pass out. if that is 15 or 30 fights, so be it. The lack of gear is odd, but thats common in japanese dojo. Same with the low kicks to the legs. In some japanese schools that normal.

what struck you as being so unbelievable?

I guess I'm just not used to seeing people "fight".

It looked full contact to me. The guy could barely even stand at the end. Several of them left with bloody noses. The punches to the face are what kind of weirded me out. To me its easier to block/withstand a kick than it is a direct punch to the face. The fact that they used no safety equipment was also kind of alarming. I guess, I'm not old school enough. I just didn't know schools still beat each other to a pulp.

 

[jks9199]

Going through the comments, the guy who posted the video says it's Shito-ryu.

 

[Tez3]

I guess I'm just not used to seeing people "fight".

It looked full contact to me. The guy could barely even stand at the end. Several of them left with bloody noses. The punches to the face are what kind of weirded me out. To me its easier to block/withstand a kick than it is a direct punch to the face. The fact that they used no safety equipment was also kind of alarming. I guess, I'm not old school enough. I just didn't know schools still beat each other to a pulp.

If it had been full contact they would have KOd each other! They were hardly beating each other to a pulp lol, it was just sparring. They would have had the only safety equipment they needed , a gum shield and a groin guard.

Punches to the face are obviously better avoided but can't be all the time, it's good to know that you can take a punch if necessary, what do you think will happen in a street fight/attack if you aren't used to fighting?

The bottom line in martial arts is fighting however you want to dress it up with philosophy or other high minded talk. It's fine to say that it's character forming, the way of peace etc etc but of what use is any of this if you can't fight?

 

[Sylo]

If it had been full contact they would have KOd each other! They were hardly beating each other to a pulp lol, it was just sparring. They would have had the only safety equipment they needed , a gum shield and a groin guard.

Punches to the face are obviously better avoided but can't be all the time, it's good to know that you can take a punch if necessary, what do you think will happen in a street fight/attack if you aren't used to fighting?

The bottom line in martial arts is fighting however you want to dress it up with philosophy or other high minded talk. It's fine to say that it's character forming, the way of peace etc etc but of what use is any of this if you can't fight?

Now that I am watching it again. I agree.

It seems more brutal, because they allow more striking area. Like the leg kicks they were doing, and the takedowns. We spar about this hard, but with pads.. but we are not allowed to punch to the face. We can kick to the head, but no direct face contact. I don't think learning to take a punch to the face is something that I need to "Train". There is this thing called adrenaline, that will kick in. I've been bashed in the leg with a baseball bat at full force and got up and kept going. Some people will react differently, but I'm not sure you could teach someone to "take a punch". Maybe you can. My motto is, don't get hit. I know this is not ever 100% possible. But I train to elevate the odds that I won't get hit. My main issue with what they were doing.. is injury. What good am I going to be on the street when the night before my fellow student cracked my shinbone in class? I just think there should be a line drawn as to how heavy you go with it. I have to get up and go to work the next day.

 

[Noah_Legel]

I recognized the kata Seiunchin in there, and up until the sparring it looked a lot like the black belt test in my dojo back in Illinois, with full-speed, full-force attackers that you have to demonstrate bunkai on. Our test doesn't include the sparring, but the promotion ceremony does. It's definitely not hard to believe that this happens on some traditional or hardcore dojo. I am a little concerned about the fact that the person going up for his black belt had to fight lower ranks--as I recall, if you are fighting to earn your black belt, shouldn't you be fighting people your rank and higher? Oh well, though, I'm not the sensei

 

[Tez3]

Brutal? I disagree, it's sparring. They won't have injured each other, we don't other than a bloody nose now and again. They weren't fighting hard enough to seriously hurt each other. That's what we call semi contact, full contact is much harder.
Being punched in the face is different from being hit anywhere else and I wouldn't bank on adrenaline kicking in. I didn't say you needed to train it, I said it was useful to know that you could take it if necessary. You can train all you like to avoid getting hit but when push comes to shove, you will be hit I promise you.

It's one of the things I despair of that when there are people who spar properly others think it's brutal and we should all be 'touch' or points sparring. I understand that people can be put off martial arts by this but what good is just being able to 'touch' your opponent going to do?

 

[elder999]

Brutal? I disagree, it's sparring.

Yeah. Compared to a kyokushin test from 30 years ago, and most sparring today, that was fairly mild, except for the fact that I think he fought everyone there at least once-that'll test you a little, and a test is, after all, supposed to be a test. :lol:

 

[Tez3]

Anyone done the 10 man kumite? or even 100 man!

 

[elder999]

Anyone done the 10 man kumite? or even 100 man!

More like the 50 man "just keep standing," than kumite......ah, youth. :lol:

 

[Sylo]

Brutal? I disagree, it's sparring. They won't have injured each other, we don't other than a bloody nose now and again. They weren't fighting hard enough to seriously hurt each other. That's what we call semi contact, full contact is much harder.
Being punched in the face is different from being hit anywhere else and I wouldn't bank on adrenaline kicking in. I didn't say you needed to train it, I said it was useful to know that you could take it if necessary. You can train all you like to avoid getting hit but when push comes to shove, you will be hit I promise you.

It's one of the things I despair of that when there are people who spar properly others think it's brutal and we should all be 'touch' or points sparring. I understand that people can be put off martial arts by this but what good is just being able to 'touch' your opponent going to do?

I just want to make it clear, that I don't agree with "touch" sparring.
My school doesn't do it. If I kick you, you will feel it and it will probably hurt.. pads or not. But, we also have guidelines to avoid injuries. Now from the video here different eyes will see different things. I can't really tell exactly how hard those kicks are. But I do know that by the end of it the tester can barely even stand up, and is limping pretty badly. Now, maybe he isn't injured. In that sense, its all well and fine. I leave class on occasion with a bruised shin or leg or something. I've gotten my fair share of bloody noses as well. I don't agree with tappity tap. I'm just saying that I don't need to be leaving class with broken or severely bruised bones. Thats hurting more than its helping. I agree that will only truly learn something by being put in that situation. But doctors don't learn to do surgery on folks, by cutting on people without health problems. This video is not that bad, after watching it a few times. The face punching is really the only thing questionable about it.

 

[Tez3]

I just want to make it clear, that I don't agree with "touch" sparring.
My school doesn't do it. If I kick you, you will feel it and it will probably hurt.. pads or not. But, we also have guidelines to avoid injuries. Now from the video here different eyes will see different things. I can't really tell exactly how hard those kicks are. But I do know that by the end of it the tester can barely even stand up, and is limping pretty badly. Now, maybe he isn't injured. In that sense, its all well and fine. I leave class on occasion with a bruised shin or leg or something. I've gotten my fair share of bloody noses as well. I don't agree with tappity tap. I'm just saying that I don't need to be leaving class with broken or severely bruised bones. Thats hurting more than its helping. I agree that will only truly learn something by being put in that situation. But doctors don't learn to do surgery on folks, by cutting on people without health problems. This video is not that bad, after watching it a few times. The face punching is really the only thing questionable about it.

Bear in mind that this is a video of a grading not an everyday training class, as elder said, it's meant to be testing!

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I didn't see anything wrong with the testing.

I think it is a great way to learn experience for fighting in a controled setting.

Some may get the impression that its hard or ugly but so is fighting on the street.

If you do not train in a realastic manner,pressure testing then you are practicing dead form.

I have gone all out like that before I bled but in the long run I felt better prepared for a fight then if I just practice Kata in a mirror.

 

[Tez3]

Why is punching to the face questionable? It seems perfectly reasonable to me, why wouldn't you? What are the basic punches for if not hitting in the face?

 

[Cryozombie]

I am a little concerned about the fact that the person going up for his black belt had to fight lower ranks--as I recall, if you are fighting to earn your black belt, shouldn't you be fighting people your rank and higher? Oh well, though, I'm not the sensei

I'd say not always. Different people attack different ways, and I think its good to fight people of all ranks. Not just people who are better than you. I think IF I were an instructor, I would want to see how a person reacts to many types of attacks and skill levels, not just watch them get beat down by someone with more experience. I actually think that you put your students at a disadvantage by making them "win" against someone higher ranked. If they don't, I'd say its a measure of their ability (on bot sides) and if they do, it MIGHT be dumb luck and no indicator of their skill. And IMHO, if a 1st dan can kick the crap out of 2nd or 3rd Dans, maybe the 1st should be 2nd or 3rd, and the 2nd or 3rds should bounce back to first. Eh?

 

[Gordon Nore]

If it had been full contact they would have KOd each other! They were hardly beating each other to a pulp lol, it was just sparring. They would have had the only safety equipment they needed , a gum shield and a groin guard.

Punches to the face are obviously better avoided but can't be all the time, it's good to know that you can take a punch if necessary, what do you think will happen in a street fight/attack if you aren't used to fighting?

The bottom line in martial arts is fighting however you want to dress it up with philosophy or other high minded talk. It's fine to say that it's character forming, the way of peace etc etc but of what use is any of this if you can't fight?

That's my take on it. Would be interesting to see the whole test to see what else he had to do. We only saw one kata, I believe. But black kumite in a grading should be intense. There is this element of breaking the candidate down and seeing what s/he has under the stress of this event.

I was surprised that they we're wearing pads, but that's what they signed on for.

 

[myusername]

Looks pretty good to me. There is a Goju Ryu Karate Organisation that has classes in London and Bristol that incorporate a 30 man kumite as part of their shodan testing! I can imagine it looking pretty similar. Tez you probably know of this organisation as I remember you have mentioned being a fan of Neil Groves from UK MMA in previous posts. Neil Grove is mentioned in the DKK fighters section of the first link and the 30 man kumite is mentioned in the Yudansha1 section.

http://www.goju-karate.co.uk/

http://www.combat-karate.co.uk/

 

[Tez3]

Looks pretty good to me. There is a Goju Ryu Karate Organisation that has classes in London and Bristol that incorporate a 30 man kumite as part of their shodan testing! I can imagine it looking pretty similar. Tez you probably know of this organisation as I remember you have mentioned being a fan of Neil Groves from UK MMA in previous posts. Neil Grove is mentioned in the DKK fighters section of the first link and the 30 man kumite is mentioned in the Yudansha1 section.

http://www.goju-karate.co.uk/

http://www.combat-karate.co.uk/

Certainly do know of them, Gavin Mulholland posts up on the Iain Abernethy site and I've read some of his articles in both MAI and Trad Karate, I've never met them (needless to say my instructor has, he just seems to get everywhere to train with people) they have a very good reputation.
Rumour control has it that Neil has been signed on a 3 fight deal with UFC.

Certainly this isn't sparring for the McDojos ( subject of the month on mT I think lol) but I think it's what a lot of us are doing. There are surprising few injuries I think because people though sparring hard are sparring with control.