Do you spar

[Xue Sheng]

Disagreement is fine

 

[Yoshiyahu]

did u see the videos?

Disagreement is fine

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I saw the videos. The stances puts you in a pigon toe stance. It is closing the Gua. In standing mediation practice you usually want the Gua open,the stance alignment to be like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkAZejND9gM&feature=related


The pictures show the pelvis thrust forward.

In standing mediation the lower back or Coccyx loosens and sinks naturally. This means the back is in proper alignment.

 

[Xue Sheng]

did u see the videos?

Alrighty Then

Yes I saw the videos and no it does not make Wing Chun a Neijia.

What is your focus during the slow Sil lim tao form, how do you move, where does the energy and power come from?

As for the standing meditation....ALL traditional CMA styles have some sort of standing meditation.

And I have to ask you something at this point….

You see I am rather impressed by Wing Chun due to its effectiveness, its lack of flourish and its directness. Its simplicity if you will, but I am beginning to wonder what it is about Wing Chun that you find lacking or are embarrassed by, since you seem to have a need to associate it with Neijia and have all agree that it is.

It does not make Wing Chun any different any better or any worse if it is not a Neijia style and I just don’t understand why you continue to try and prove that it is when by all the definitions we are stuck with it is not.

Just enjoy the training and move on, if you can’t do that maybe you need to find a neijia style and train that instead. I enjoy training Neijia styles but I will admit it is rather refreshing to train Sanda; it is hard, external and claims no Qi training. It is just good old fashion CMA hard training that is all and it is great and rather effective. I trained Wing Chun and it to was great training but after repeated attempts at going back to train I just had to admit to myself, as much as I did not want to, I don’t fit Wing Chun. The majority of my defense becomes Taiji and my attacks are all Xingyiquan or Sanda and it was going to take a lot more work than I wanted to do at this stage of my life to get to having that sort of automatic response and having it be Wing Chun and that really upset me since I do really love good wing chun. You see I do not fond a thing lacking in the style it is what it is “Wing Chun” I would not label it Neijia but then, unless someone forces the issue as you have, I don’t label anything Neijia or Waijia anymore. They are all Chinese Martial Arts Styles and they all have their advantages and disadvantages but bottom-line if a guy that is highly trained in Wing Chun came up against a guy highly trained in Taiji or Xingyiquan or Baguazhang the only thing I am pretty certain of is that it would be one hell of a fight.

 

[sparky12]

I don't usually get in on these conversations but here is my take on it. Internal refers not only to a method of training but also the mind-set of the person doing the training. If you are training for strength and speed you are probably moving toward the external side. I think most martial arts in their advanced levels have both internal and external aspects and the way it is practiced has a lot to do with the way it is viewed. That being said you could practice an external art such as wing chung using the internal aspects but it will generally still be an external art.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Focus of doing SLT slowly is to cultivate chi and send through out the body. You Focus on the Dan Tien and send Chi from their to all the limbs and your body. All Seven Stars should have the Chi Cycled to them. How do you move is simple...Linear and small circle hand motions. Contiunous flow from one move to another along with snap at end of each strike while continuing to flow. The power comes from the hips and the waist. Actually you use your entire body from the ground up to generate the force.

But as for your comment...I think we beat a dead horse with this topic...I see nothing wrong with either external or internal arts...Both end up in the same place...Traditionally most Gung Fu systems teach you about softness and relaxation at the beginning...Hardness is stress later. With the Exception of Tiger of course. But with Karate you start off hard and then later comes Relaxation and Softness.

I know little of sanda so I can not comment on it...I only what I read since i have never formally trained sanda...

As for Lacking...I dont see it as lacking...I am sorry if I come off that way to you...you seem to asked that question...I don't think WC is lacking...Its a wounderful Art I am overjoyed to study it.

Alrighty Then

Yes I saw the videos and no it does not make Wing Chun a Neijia.

What is your focus during the slow Sil lim tao form, how do you move, where does the energy and power come from?

As for the standing meditation....ALL traditional CMA styles have some sort of standing meditation.

And I have to ask you something at this point….

You see I am rather impressed by Wing Chun due to its effectiveness, its lack of flourish and its directness. Its simplicity if you will, but I am beginning to wonder what it is about Wing Chun that you find lacking or are embarrassed by, since you seem to have a need to associate it with Neijia and have all agree that it is.

It does not make Wing Chun any different any better or any worse if it is not a Neijia style and I just don’t understand why you continue to try and prove that it is when by all the definitions we are stuck with it is not.

Just enjoy the training and move on, if you can’t do that maybe you need to find a neijia style and train that instead. I enjoy training Neijia styles but I will admit it is rather refreshing to train Sanda; it is hard, external and claims no Qi training. It is just good old fashion CMA hard training that is all and it is great and rather effective. I trained Wing Chun and it to was great training but after repeated attempts at going back to train I just had to admit to myself, as much as I did not want to, I don’t fit Wing Chun. The majority of my defense becomes Taiji and my attacks are all Xingyiquan or Sanda and it was going to take a lot more work than I wanted to do at this stage of my life to get to having that sort of automatic response and having it be Wing Chun and that really upset me since I do really love good wing chun. You see I do not fond a thing lacking in the style it is what it is “Wing Chun” I would not label it Neijia but then, unless someone forces the issue as you have, I don’t label anything Neijia or Waijia anymore. They are all Chinese Martial Arts Styles and they all have their advantages and disadvantages but bottom-line if a guy that is highly trained in Wing Chun came up against a guy highly trained in Taiji or Xingyiquan or Baguazhang the only thing I am pretty certain of is that it would be one hell of a fight.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Focus of doing SLT slowly is to cultivate chi and send through out the body. You Focus on the Dan Tien and send Chi from their to all the limbs and your body. All Seven Stars should have the Chi Cycled to them. How do you move is simple...Linear and small circle hand motions. Contiunous flow from one move to another along with snap at end of each strike while continuing to flow. The power comes from the hips and the waist. Actually you use your entire body from the ground up to generate the force.

But as for your comment...I think we beat a dead horse with this topic...I see nothing wrong with either external or internal arts...Both end up in the same place...Traditionally most Gung Fu systems teach you about softness and relaxation at the beginning...Hardness is stress later. With the Exception of Tiger of course. But with Karate you start off hard and then later comes Relaxation and Softness.

I know little of sanda so I can not comment on it...I only what I read since i have never formally trained sanda...

As for Lacking...I dont see it as lacking...I am sorry if I come off that way to you...you seem to asked that question...I don't think WC is lacking...Its a wounderful Art I am overjoyed to study it.

Yeah I am pretty much done with this; I posted that on 12-31-08.

All I will say, from my background in Neijia is that the power is directed by the waist, it does not come from the waist. Qi is focused on at the dantian but before you can jump to sending qi from the dantian to the arms and legs you first need to work on getting qi to flow properly in the Conception vessel and the Governing vessel (small circulation).

As to Sanda, the version I did was Police/Military and it is rather hard to find a sifu that will teach this version outside of China and to westerners. Most only know its sport side aka Sanshou, which is incredibly different from the version I trained.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Okay...Well if one is going to fight or spar with Bagua or Xing Yi Quan...Don't you need a strong structure which is built by doing phyiscal external work?

Does Bagua have any External work that you do to make your Chi stronger...

I have some videos please comment if you find them a little accurate...I can not find the post of book Online I was reading about Emei baguazhang conditiong but I found a couple of internal style videos that show some of stuff I read about....Also these are some of training tools that my Tai Chi Sifu's uses when teaching Bagua.

Bagua one should walk on bricks to train ones balance and chi for walking in the circle..

Also you hit the tree with your palms and body...So you strike the tree with different strikes from the hand ,fist, forearm, and elbow. Bagua palms should be pretty devasting...

Also Bagua people walk a circle while carrying bricks?


Since you practice Bagua and possibly Xing Yi Quan..Do you do these external activites too?

Videos:

Walking the circle(Bricks) Beginner

Taji Pole Striking (also apart of Bagua) Master

Theatrical Movie showing Real Bagua Training!!!!

Videos I found of Interest

Yeah I am pretty much done with this; I posted that on 12-31-08.

All I will say, from my background in Neijia is that the power is directed by the waist, it does not come from the waist. Qi is focused on at the dantian but before you can jump to sending qi from the dantian to the arms and legs you first need to work on getting qi to flow properly in the Conception vessel and the Governing vessel (small circulation).

As to Sanda, the version I did was Police/Military and it is rather hard to find a sifu that will teach this version outside of China and to westerners. Most only know its sport side aka Sanshou, which is incredibly different from the version I trained.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Don't you need a strong structure which is built by doing phyiscal external work?

Structure is built on proper alignment and learning how to sink and relax.

Does Bagua have any External work that you do to make your Chi stronger...

You mean cultivate Qi? Walk the circle correctly IMO is enough.

Bagua one should walk on bricks to train ones balance and chi for walking in the circle..

You don't need to really. If you can correctly sink your structure will be good which will make your balance more stable having correct structure will allow the Qi to flow smoothly.

Also you hit the tree with your palms and body...So you strike the tree with different strikes from the hand ,fist, forearm, and elbow. Bagua palms should be pretty devasting...

I am sure some people do.

Also Bagua people walk a circle while carrying bricks?

You can or with weights. I don't. Some what similar to the idea of people who jog for health some use weights others do not.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Okay...Well if one is going to fight or spar with Bagua or Xing Yi Quan...Don't you need a strong structure which is built by doing phyiscal external work?

Does Bagua have any External work that you do to make your Chi stronger...

I have some videos please comment if you find them a little accurate...I can not find the post of book Online I was reading about Emei baguazhang conditiong but I found a couple of internal style videos that show some of stuff I read about....Also these are some of training tools that my Tai Chi Sifu's uses when teaching Bagua.

Bagua one should walk on bricks to train ones balance and chi for walking in the circle..

Also you hit the tree with your palms and body...So you strike the tree with different strikes from the hand ,fist, forearm, and elbow. Bagua palms should be pretty devasting...

Also Bagua people walk a circle while carrying bricks?


Since you practice Bagua and possibly Xing Yi Quan..Do you do these external activites too?

Videos:

Walking the circle(Bricks) Beginner

Taji Pole Striking (also apart of Bagua) Master

Theatrical Movie showing Real Bagua Training!!!!

Videos I found of Interest

ummm if this was directed at my last post what does any of this have to do with working on micro cosmic qi circulation before you work on macro cosmic orbit?

As to your bagua bricks example, I believe I answered that in another one of your posts several days ago.

It is not a beginner level of training it is higher level, if it is trained at all (see JadecloudAlchemist's post) You would not start such external training before you did a whole lot of internal. There are multiple styles of bagua, not just 1 and they do not all train the same. They do however pretty much come from the same place Dong Haichuan. There is one style Yin Yang Bagua that claims it comes from the person Dong Haichuan learned from.

Also fighting with Xingyiquan or Baguazhang is not taught as soon as it would be in Wing Chun. I another one of your posts I believe I also already said that it takes about 1 year in Wing Chun to be able to defend yourself, Xingyiquan 2 years, bagua about 4 and taiji about 6.

As for structure in Xingyiquan again, in one of your posts I already told you about Santi Shi and provided pictures and asked you to stand in it for 5 minutes. That is where the structure comes from in Xingyiquan. Also in one of your posts I said that you were not even considered a beginner unless you could stand in Santi Shi for 20 minutes per side for a total of 40 minutes.

You are asking the same questions over and over again and using the same examples that have already been addressed over and over again and I am done answering repeat questions.

Things in Neijia style, unlike Wing Chun which is not neijia, take time, there are no shortcuts. Go directly from no qi training to marcocosmic orbit and you are likely fooling yourself you need a base and that comes from microcosmic orbit and that takes time, lots of time.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Jade thank you for your Opinions I enjoy them...I also am glad that Xue share his with me. Sorry if I am being a pest sir...sorry!

Structure is built on proper alignment and learning how to sink and relax.

You mean cultivate Qi? Walk the circle correctly IMO is enough.

You don't need to really. If you can correctly sink your structure will be good which will make your balance more stable having correct structure will allow the Qi to flow smoothly.

I am sure some people do.

You can or with weights. I don't. Some what similar to the idea of people who jog for health some use weights others do not.