Can You Fight with Tai Chi?

[Anthony Walmsley]

"This Thread is about Tai Chi and its ability to actually be used in a combat situation. If there ever arose a time where you had to fight and defend yourself. Could you do using Tai Chi?"

Returning to the original question - quoted above - what exactly is meant by a 'combat situation'?

"Do Tai Chi practioners only do push hands are do you also spar?"

And again, what is intended by the term 'spar'?

www.wau.it/haha

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hi Xue Sheng or Whatever your real name is,

I personally don't think Yang Chengfu's examples are one's to live bye. He was obese and out of shape. In my opinion, much of what occurred earlier training wise was lost. Just my thoughts.

If you are talking Yang style he is the root for most of today’s forms. If you look at him in his later years he’s that is true, But you need to look beyond that to his top students, Fu Zhongwen, Tung Ying Chieh, Yang Shou Zhong, Tian Zhaolin, etc. And see what they did based on his teaching. My lineage goes to Tung Ying Chieh but if you wish to judge all Yang style (which tends towards the 10 essences) by Yang Chengfu in his later years then so be it. No one is saying live like Yang Chengfu but his ten essentials are pretty much the guidelines or the basis for most “Traditional” Yang Taiji today.

But this is off post, of you wish to discuss the obesity of Yang Chengfu it may be best to do that in another thread

"This Thread is about Tai Chi and its ability to actually be used in a combat situation. If there ever arose a time where you had to fight and defend yourself. Could you do using Tai Chi?"

Returning to the original question - quoted above - what exactly is meant by a 'combat situation'?

"Do Tai Chi practioners only do push hands are do you also spar?"

And again, what is intended by the term 'spar'?

www.wau.it/haha

Most Taiji practitioners today can't defend themselves with Taiji regardless of style. Most do not take push hands, if they do push hands at all, beyond basic drills and basic push hands is not sparing. It is far from sparing actually. You need to get to free style push hands to come close to sparing but you need to understand the basics of the forms and the principles of Taiji before you get to that.

So most do form, fewer do push hands and very few spar regardless of style.

But, IMO, it is easier to get some level of SD in Chen style than Yang but that does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that Chen is any easier to master than Yang because it isn't.

 

[Dean]

Xue, sorry about the name thing. I got caught up in the moment last night.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xue, sorry about the name thing. I got caught up in the moment last night.

No problem you gave me an excuse to pull some useless info out of brain and post it

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
---Shakespeare

Check your Reps

 

[Ninebird8]

With respect, I only know that my tai chi sifu, Jeff Bolt, and my tai chi Sigung, Dr. Yang, can quite effectively fight with tai chi employing the push hands, the fa jing, the plucking/grabbing of Yang style, etc. I have also found, using the martial aspects of tai chi have aided substantially in filling out the gaps employed in my kung fu over the last 32 years. It made my kung fu more natural, less technical, taught me the key of relaxation and using the 5 methods of breathing, taught me how to root (while moving, which was very difficult at first), and overall gave me the understanding of "sooner" rather than quicker or faster. I will tell you my own personal experience, not related to any others, but an affect tai chi had upon me: it slowed things down while fighting, so I could mentally and emotionally see the opponent's weapon slowly or seemingly so. Made me realize the fist and foot were unimportant, it was the gates/door connectins of wrist/ankle, elbow/knee, shoulder/waist,and other manifestations. And, to be honest, watching a Chen stylist move or express jing, or move well during fighting, is example enough from my observation. And, yes, I have incorporated these theories in two real fights defending myself in one instance and my family in another.

 

[Anthony Walmsley]

Most Taiji practitioners today can't defend themselves with Taiji regardless of style. Most do not take push hands, if they do push hands at all, beyond basic drills and basic push hands is not sparing. It is far from sparing actually. You need to get to free style push hands to come close to sparing but you need to understand the basics of the forms and the principles of Taiji before you get to that.

So most do form, fewer do push hands and very few spar regardless of style.

But, IMO, it is easier to get some level of SD in Chen style than Yang but that does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that Chen is any easier to master than Yang because it isn't.

'Sorry but I will return to my question, what exactly is meant by the term 'sparing'?

Anthony Walmsley.
www.wau.it/haha

 

[oxy]

The art of surviving an economic crisis.

 

[seasoned]

Tai Chi?
If you can incorporate Tai Chi principals into your own art, and your own art, becomes better, as some have said, then what is missing in our own art?? :idea:

 

[Xue Sheng]

'Sorry but I will return to my question, what exactly is meant by the term 'sparing'?

Anthony Walmsley.
www.wau.it/haha

Basically a friendly fight in a controlled environment

 

[seasoned]

Tai Chi?
If you can incorporate Tai Chi principals into your own art, and your own art, becomes better, as some have said, then what is missing in our own art?? :idea:

Perhaps nothing. Maybe as in Tai Chi we need to look inward within our own art, learn from Tai Chi in the respect that we need to, not just do, but feel. It took me way to many years to feel rather then just do. And it all started with a class I took to enhance my GoJu, and things have not been the same since. There is a lot of substance in Tai Chi that takes a long time to feel, but what you get out of it is well worth your while. Just some thoughts.

 

[Anthony Walmsley]

Basically a friendly fight in a controlled environment

Well, to be perfectly honest, I have never witnessed or been involved in a 'friendly fight'! Further, so called 'sparring' can have tragic results.

May I ask how you would train a middle aged housewife?

Anthony Walmsley.
www.wau.it/haha

 

[Quotheraving]

What does this mean? What is scritinised?

so that your technique can be scritinised fully

Scrutinised both by oneself and the teacher so that the subtleties can be better grasped and made effective use of at full speed.
And in answer to the original question, yes when proficient Tai Chi becomes a very effective martial art.

 

[girlbug2]

Sure, speed it up a little and you have a martial art as valid as any other.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Has anyone of you guys ever used your Tai Chi to spar or fight with?

 

[Anthony Walmsley]

Has anyone of you guys ever used your Tai Chi to spar or fight with?

Before you can expect an answer, perhaps you should explain what you mean by 'spar' - do you mean with gloves, gum shield etc., in a ring with a Doctor present, rounds and weight divisions?

And a 'fight'? Do you mean a 'self defense' situation?

Anthony Walmsley.
www.wau.t/haha

 

[Xue Sheng]

Has anyone of you guys ever used your Tai Chi to spar or fight with?

I used it in security at a hospital I use to work at.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well, to be perfectly honest, I have never witnessed or been involved in a 'friendly fight'! Further, so called 'sparring' can have tragic results.

May I ask how you would train a middle aged housewife?

Anthony Walmsley.
www.wau.it/haha

That would be why I started the statement with "Basically". There are multiple things that can happen while soarring but a definition is highly unlikley to take in all those possibilities. And one can get pretty badly injured in some CMA forms but it is still a form not a fight.

How would one training a middle aged house wife in Taiji? Well to be honest most middle aged house wives in taiji do not want any martial arts at all.... To be completely honest most people who take taiji do not want any martial arts at all and many that do don't have the patience to take the time.

Maybe you should define what you mean by sparring and we can stop this back and forth and get to the point you are after.

 

[Anthony Walmsley]

That would be why I started the statement with "Basically". There are multiple things that can happen while soarring but a definition is highly unlikley to take in all those possibilities. And one can get pretty badly injured in some CMA forms but it is still a form not a fight.

How would one training a middle aged house wife in Taiji? Well to be honest most middle aged house wives in taiji do not want any martial arts at all.... To be completely honest most people who take taiji do not want any martial arts at all and many that do don't have the patience to take the time.

Maybe you should define what you mean by sparring and we can stop this back and forth and get to the point you are after.

I see 'sparring', with or without protection, as a 'Martial Sports' training method not a 'Martial Arts' training method.
I perceive Taijiquan, or any other Martial Art, as a system that will give the practitioner at least a chance of defending themselves in the event of a serious physical assault; in other words a system of 'Self Defense'.
I proposed the question of training a middle aged housewife because one cannot train such a person to defend themselves through participation in 'sparring', 'Tui Shou Competitions', or other sports orientated methods.

Anthony Walmsley.
www.wau.it/haha

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Yes, Okay can you spar with Tai Chi with mma gloves or kenpo gloves on along with a mouth peice and a cup and possibly a helment?

Before you can expect an answer, perhaps you should explain what you mean by 'spar' - do you mean with gloves, gum shield etc., in a ring with a Doctor present, rounds and weight divisions?

And a 'fight'? Do you mean a 'self defense' situation?

Anthony Walmsley.
www.wau.t/haha

 

[Yoshiyahu]

I am sorry I do not mean sparring as competition or going to MMA or San Shou. That is a guage for your skill but not a training method. I see practicing defense drills, Push hands variations,Chi Sau and Sparring with your class mates as training methods to being able to use your Tai Chi. The more you use your Tai Chi in light or heavy sparring the more you will learn from expereince. I don't mean sparring someone who is trying to take your eye out or knock you unconscious. But sparring in matter where you trade techniques and learn how to use your CMA. I don't mean you go for throat chokes,leg and arm breaks, You may be able to demostrate where you could have done that technique and this technique. To your friend or family member but it doesn't mean your trying to knock them or hit them for points.

Usually you spar flowing from one technique to another. Light contact
Is all you need to realize the technique. I think more you spar in fast pace. It will get you use to a scenario where you have to fight at a fast pace. This will increase your understandin.

I see 'sparring', with or without protection, as a 'Martial Sports' training method not a 'Martial Arts' training method.
I perceive Taijiquan, or any other Martial Art, as a system that will give the practitioner at least a chance of defending themselves in the event of a serious physical assault; in other words a system of 'Self Defense'.
I proposed the question of training a middle aged housewife because one cannot train such a person to defend themselves through participation in 'sparring', 'Tui Shou Competitions', or other sports orientated methods.

Anthony Walmsley.
www.wau.it/haha