Do you personally punch harder with bent arms compared to extended?

[O'Malley]

if I tense a bent arm, am I not engaging the biceps then?

Tense as in contracting the arm muscles to stabilize it (isometric contraction)? Some engagement is necessary to stabilize the limb so that the power from the legs, waist and torso is channeled to the fist, but all striking arts that I know of aim to limit that contraction to the very minimum, as it acts like a "brake" that makes strikes slower and weaker.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

if I tense a bent arm, am I not engaging the biceps then?

You may tense things that aren’t prime movers, that’s irrelevant to your question. Biceps don’t contribute much to extension. Several “people” have given you the same answer I gave you.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Tense as in contracting the arm muscles to stabilize it (isometric contraction)? Some engagement is necessary to stabilize the limb so that the power from the legs, waist and torso is channeled to the fist, but all striking arts that I know of aim to limit that contraction to the very minimum, as it acts like a "brake" that makes strikes slower and weaker.

Well said.

 

[Buka]

of a thread.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Major movers for the punch are triceps, Teres major, and pectoralis. Power from foot/root up through legs, hips, and waist turn. Agonist vs antagonist. The biceps have very little to do with punching power. We use both torquing flat punch and vertical punch, as well as others.

Triceps not biceps. One should think of how we strengthen those muscles. Triceps push away from the body. Biceps pull towards the body. With that general understanding we can choose which punch to talk about.

From there we would cover structure followed by power generation. Some punches must use bent arms, for example circular punches. From there we could then talk about puch output. Some punches take longer to reload than other punches. But I have no interest in that bottomless pit.

 

[JowGaWolf]

if I tense a bent arm, am I not engaging the biceps then?

If you tense the arm then you are restricting structure movement.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Triceps not biceps. One should think of how we strengthen those muscles. Triceps push away from the body. Biceps pull towards the body. With that general understanding we can choose which punch to talk about.

From there we would cover structure followed by power generation. Some punches must use bent arms, for example circular punches. From there we could then talk about puch output. Some punches take longer to reload than other punches. But I have no interest in that bottomless pit.

That’s what I said, triceps, not biceps. Although, a good hook or roundhouse may have more engagement with bicep on the return. I never extend 100% on any punch. I respect my joints, they told me not to punch like that about 35 years ago.

 

[martialuser]

If you tense the arm then you are restricting structure movement.

try generating energy without tensing.

 

[JowGaWolf]

try generating energy without tensing.

Hold your fist and tense your arm then try to throw a punch. It will feel like you are fighting your own movement. Power grows with relaxation.

Tension provides structure. The tension you feel in your punch should be what you use for structure.

 

[martialuser]

Hold your fist and tense your arm then try to throw a punch. It will feel like you are fighting your own movement. Power grows with relaxation.

Your wrist will break if you dont tense your arm at impact

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Hold your fist and tense your arm then try to throw a punch. It will feel like you are fighting your own movement. Power grows with relaxation.

Tension provides structure. The tension you feel in your punch should be what you use for structure.

Your wrist will break if you dont tense your arm at impact

There are 3 (technically 4) spots you can tense your arm while throwing a punch. The fist itself, your bicep/tricep, and your shoulder. Which one you tense and when will help with power and structure, so just referring to any of them as "your arm" doesn't help, particularly in an online discussion.

(the technically 4 is also your forearm, but that takes its queue from your hand/fist so I count that as one).

 

[JowGaWolf]

Your wrist will break if you dont tense your arm at impact

Depends on the type of strke. For some of my long fist strikes I only make my fist tense and not my arm.

And my fist is only tense right before the impact. I created a training excercise where I have to make my fist tight without making my arm tight which is why I can punch a heavy bag with an open fist.

 

[Badhabits]

try generating energy without tensing.

You "tense" the muscles needed to propel your skeleton into motion- when your skeleton is actually in motion, your muscles should be like wet rags hanging off your arm bones, you tense again for a fraction of a second on impact. Tension should be as short a time as possible. As a heavyset guy who naturally tends towards being tense this is something I've had to deal with on a micro level. You don't punch "hard", you punch fast for power. Trying to punch hard makes you tense, which does indeed drastically slow you down, which weakens your punch. Tensing too much as you punch makes it feel like you're punching harder, but you're not. What you're feeling is the force you generate being absorbed by your own body instead of going into your target. A real, fast powerful punch feels effortless, not hard or tense.
Ok rant over

 

[JowGaWolf]

There are 3 (technically 4) spots you can tense your arm while throwing a punch. The fist itself, your bicep/tricep, and your shoulder. Which one you tense and when will help with power and structure, so just referring to any of them as "your arm" doesn't help, particularly in an online discussion.

(the technically 4 is also your forearm, but that takes its queue from your hand/fist so I count that as one).

When I roll my long fist punches into back fist strikes the forearm isn't tense. The fist formation or structure will determine how much tension will be in the forearm. The fist structure that I use doesn't require much if any help from the forearm. But wrapping the thumb around the knuckles makes more use of the forearm. 3-star and 7-star forearm conditioning was taught to me and I had to strike without making the arm tense so any motion like that I can do without tension.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

try generating energy without tensing.

Well, yes. That's what we do. Being tense and stiff is anathema to martial arts. Relax and flow. Tenseness is involved as the core muscles and bones come into alignment at the moment of impact (chinkuchi).

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Your wrist will break if you dont tense your arm at impact

Well, no. Proper fist formation and alignment will keep your wrist from bending painfully. Muscles help to align, but they do not need to be overly tense to do that.

 

[J. Pickard]

The bicep has nothing to do with throwing a punch. If I am understanding the premise correctly, this actually makes sense. The punch being locked out in the end, from my understanding, is to emphasize following through and not stopping at the target. However, the point of impact happens (ideally) at the apex of acceleration which would be a few inches before the punch would be extended leaving the elbow bent to some degree. Punching power comes from generating torque in the hips and shoulders through applying a strong downward force into the ground. There are a ton of kinematics studies on this.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Your wrist will break if you dont tense your arm at impact

It's been my observation and experience that this happens because the wrist structure is incorrect where the energy of the punch exits the wrist and not the knuckle that is making impact.

The wrist can still bend if the forearm is tight. If you are driving that energy to exit the wrist then it will bend. But with all of that said, there will still be the need to add tension to create the structure. But if that structure is bad then tensing up won't help.

 

[martialuser]

. However, the point of impact happens (ideally) at the apex of acceleration which would be a few inches before the punch would be extended leaving the elbow bent to some degree. Punching power comes from generating torque in the hips and shoulders through applying a strong downward force into the ground. There are a ton of kinematics studies on this.

Yeah, peak momentum is before the arm is fully extended.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Tensing too much as you punch makes it feel like you're punching harder, but you're not.

This is often what most people who are learning mistake as power. Very accurately described.