Do you personally punch harder with bent arms compared to extended?

[Wing Woo Gar]

try generating energy without tensing.

I do it almost every day. It’s not your arm that tenses. But hey, I don’t know what you people do…

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

There are 3 (technically 4) spots you can tense your arm while throwing a punch. The fist itself, your bicep/tricep, and your shoulder. Which one you tense and when will help with power and structure, so just referring to any of them as "your arm" doesn't help, particularly in an online discussion.

(the technically 4 is also your forearm, but that takes its queue from your hand/fist so I count that as one).

More than one way. The way Dr Yang does it is significantly different than in Wing Woo Gar. I embrace any method that can produce results. Some are better for certain movements than others.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Well, no. Proper fist formation and alignment will keep your wrist from bending painfully. Muscles help to align, but they do not need to be overly tense to do that.

You and I use the same fist structure, so we are brothers in the understanding of fist structure. The way we make fists causes our bones in the hand to line up differently than the common way of making a fist.

I'm not saying that we are special, but our fist structure does give us a unique perspective of just how the bones in the hand line up to create that bone structure for striking.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I do it almost every day. It’s not your arm that tenses. But hey, I don’t know what you people do…

The most popular phrase in tai chi is "Relax" the most common response is "I am" and "I'm trying to" lol. Being able to move large body parts without tensing up is the most difficult thing to do lol.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The most popular phrase in tai chi is "Relax" the most common response is "I am" and "I'm trying to" lol. Being able to move large body parts without tensing up is the most difficult thing to do lol.

Are you calling me fat?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

You and I use the same fist structure, so we are brothers in the understanding of fist structure. The way we make fists causes our bones in the hand to line up differently than the common way of making a fist.

I'm not saying that we are special, but our fist structure does give us a unique perspective of just how the bones in the hand line up to create that bone structure for striking.

I think proper fist structure is special, it’s certainly not common.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I talked to a karate fighter who participated in a study in which the karatekas had higher punch output when their straight punch arm was bent compared to extended. This was a surprise to them.

I read this again and there may have been some assumptions made

I think the factor that they didn't take into consideration is the concept of punching at the surface of a target vs punching through the target.

When I think of point sparing as an example of punching at the surface of a target. This is like throwing a basket ball up in the air. Does the ball have more power at the peak of the height than it does at the beginning?

I think whiplash and organ damage when I think of punching through the target. This is like throwing a ball through a wall. In trying to do this, you will not stand at the maximum distance that the ball will reach the wall. You will stand closer to the wall, within the distance that the ball would have travelled if the wall weren't there.

it would make sense that strikes would follow the same path. Stand too close and you don't have enough space to generate power (smother punches). Stand too far and the fist passes beyond the distance for maximum power.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Are you calling me fat?

lol. nope that would be me.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I read this again and there may have been some assumptions made

I think the factor that they didn't take into consideration is the concept of punching at the surface of a target vs punching through the target.

When I think of point sparing as an example of punching at the surface of a target. This is like throwing a basket ball up in the air. Does the ball have more power at the peak of the height than it does at the beginning?

I think whiplash and organ damage when I think of punching through the target. This is like throwing a ball through a wall. In trying to do this, you will not stand at the maximum distance that the ball will reach the wall. You will stand closer to the wall, within the distance that the ball would have travelled if the wall weren't there.

it would make sense that strikes would follow the same path. Stand too close and you don't have enough space to generate power (smother punches). Stand too far and the fist passes beyond the distance for maximum power.

lol! The fight zone vs the safe zone again?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think proper fist structure is special, it’s certainly not common.

Gave that some more thought. you are right. Common fist creation is probably not proper in the slightest. Even in training, some still mess it up. The assumption that some of the people in the gym make where I train is that hitting the bag hard means that the fist is a good one.

I agree. Proper fist structure is special

 

[JowGaWolf]

lol! The fight zone vs the safe zone again?

STOOOOOOOP...

 

[Badhabits]

Well, no. Proper fist formation and alignment will keep your wrist from bending painfully. Muscles help to align, but they do not need to be overly tense to do that.

This right here. Muscle tension is how people with poor structure "patch" that poor structure to keep from damaging themselves.
You can hit a makiwara all night long with a loose fist/forearm/wrist without screwing yourself up as long as alignment is good. You can hit with your fingers hanging down, not even curled into a fist as long as that alignment is good.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

STOOOOOOOP...
View attachment 31914

Bwahahahaha! Wait let me get a video to prove I’m in my safe zone.

 

[martialuser]

This right here. Muscle tension is how people with poor structure "patch" that poor structure to keep from damaging themselves.
You can hit a makiwara all night long with a loose fist/forearm/wrist without screwing yourself up as long as alignment is good. You can hit with your fingers hanging down, not even curled into a fist as long as that alignment is good.

But you can't hit a heavy bag that way. Or a head

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

This right here. Muscle tension is how people with poor structure "patch" that poor structure to keep from damaging themselves.
You can hit a makiwara all night long with a loose fist/forearm/wrist without screwing yourself up as long as alignment is good. You can hit with your fingers hanging down, not even curled into a fist as long as that alignment is good.

People that tense up to punch usually telegraph and they are handing you the keys to the kingdom if they keep that tension throughout the punch. On a separate level, how many punches they can shoot effectively is dramatically reduced by too much tension. They fatigue quickly.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

But you can't hit a heavy bag that way. Or a head

Yes you can. Your sentence should read, “ I don’t know how to hit a heavy bag or a head that way.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

But you can't hit a heavy bag that way. Or a head

Take swig off that cup, then we can put something in it for you.

 

[martialuser]

Yes you can. Your sentence should read, “ I don’t know how to hit a heavy bag or a head that way.

You CAN hit it but not with any meaningful power.

 

[O'Malley]

But you can't hit a heavy bag that way. Or a head

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

You CAN hit it but not with any meaningful power.

Also not true. People are quite fragile, like an egg actually. Your perception of strength or power generation might need adjustment. Don’t take my word for it ( I’m sure you wouldn’t take the word of a “you people” ). Go try out a legit boxing gym. You might find something good.