Do you need to be able to do push-up and be strong in order to practice Wing Chun?

[bogdy23]

This thread is going everywhere. I have a heart condition and never did sports; I did a couple of months of MMA. I was the weakest one. Everybody laugh at me, and so on. I take sedatives so that I can be calm and not relive my traumas. I think Aikido is pretty much ********, but I have nothing against people that do Aikido; I respect them. There is a pretty good instructor of Wing Chun 1 out of 6 in my country. I can`t ask him because he will be whatever, yes, you can do it.

The reason I posted here on the Chinese martial arts forum is that there must be a lot of people here who do Wing Chun. Without too much effort, can I become decent? I mean, be better than most people that do, for example, 5 years of boxing or kickboxing and are now mob guys and stuff like that. And they are evil people and the scum of the earth?

Without much effort, just like in Aikido, can you do Wing Chun ? But I can`t do a lot of physical stuff because of my heart condition, which stopped me from doing sports( P.E.) in school and high school. And I have now another problem which is from college that i take sedatives is there like any way for me to become stronger and be able to handle situations like when 3 people try to jump me and steal my watch or something like that?

 

[bogdy23]

Heya, I have a mental illness too and until recently I was a bit overweight, I thought I'd share my thoughts with you.
First, I'm afraid a diet is where I would start. If you're overweight and have a heart condition, then your most dangerous enemies are things like heart attacks and type 2 diabetes. Fight the real enemy! If it helps, my recommendation goes to the 5:2 diet. You eat as normal 5 days a week, and on two nonconsecutive you only eat 200-400 calories. Look it up, it's the one I'd recommend as it's actually quite easy to follow. Adherence is very, very high with this diet. Give it a shot.
Second, you have to realise that a lot of the stuff about using martial arts to overcome stronger and fitter opponents is delusional at best. Some of it is outright fraud. Why do you think judo has weight classes? Because stronger athletes tend to win! Wing chun is supposed to have been invented by a woman who used it to overpower some baddies. This is probably quite simply a legend though.
Third, get approval from your doctor before you start any program of physical training, such as martial arts, particularly as you have a heart condition. Martial arts are fun and interesting and I hope you give it a go.

A JuJitsu sensei told me they were doing semi-contact and that it`s good for sports, but for real-life situations, Krav Maga is a lot better. They also collaborated with a Krav Maga teacher from Israel.

So I did Krav Maga for about 1 year and a half I can`t say who but the guy was top notch. So I did it, but he kept telling me that I needed to lose weight, I needed to do push-ups and stuff like that. He was trying to make me into a high-performance athlete. But the health problems won`t let me. So that`s why I was thinking about Wing Chun.

The whole Krav Maga story is got beat up good almost every session so that`s why i`ve left it . He wasn`t a very good instructor I`ve seen a lot better but as a Krav Maga practitioner he was second to none

 

[Prince_Alarming]

A JuJitsu sensei told me they were doing semi-contact and that it`s good for sports, but for real-life situations, Krav Maga is a lot better. They also collaborated with a Krav Maga teacher from Israel.

So I did Krav Maga for about 1 year and a half I can`t say who but the guy was top notch. So I did it, but he kept telling me that I needed to lose weight, I needed to do push-ups and stuff like that. He was trying to make me into a high-performance athlete. But the health problems won`t let me. So that`s why I was thinking about Wing Chun.

The whole Krav Maga story is got beat up good almost every session so that`s why i`ve left it . He wasn`t a very good instructor I`ve seen a lot better but as a Krav Maga practitioner he was second to none

To be honest mate, if you want to learn to defend yourself as best you can with what muscle and fitness you already have, I'd suggest Brazilian Jiujitsu or some other grappling art. That will get you the best bang for your buck. Through clever manipulation of body position you can defend yourself with the most efficiency. The other option is judo. The judo classes I've taken involved relatively little physical conditioning, being more focussed on skill building.
Best of luck.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm going to ignore all the other things people have brought up like your health, guns, mental illness, etc., and just try to answer your question directly, though I don't think you'll like the answer.

The reason I posted here on the Chinese martial arts forum is that there must be a lot of people here who do Wing Chun. Without too much effort, can I become decent? I mean, be better than most people that do, for example, 5 years of boxing or kickboxing and are now mob guys and stuff like that. And they are evil people and the scum of the earth?

Simple answer, ignoring everything else: No. Specifically the "without too much effort part". You may be able to get better than other out of shape people that don't train, but not the people you're talking about. Regardless of the style, if you don't put much effort into it you're not going to be better than another person that has put 5 years of effort into it, and has combat experience. This would be like asking "Without putting effort into basketball, will training with X philosophy make me better than people who have been playing for 5 years and now make a living off it?

Without much effort, just like in Aikido, can you do Wing Chun ?

Yes. But again, you won't see the results that you're looking for. The same holds true for people that do Aikido without putting effort in.

But I can`t do a lot of physical stuff because of my heart condition, which stopped me from doing sports( P.E.) in school and high school. And I have now another problem which is from college that i take sedatives is there like any way for me to become stronger and be able to handle situations like when 3 people try to jump me and steal my watch or something like that?

Even professional fighters will struggle against 3 people suddenly jumping them. Being an out of shape hobbyist who has slow reaction times means you'd fare much worse, even after 5-10 years of training. It sounds like you'd be better off learning situational awareness and de-escalation skills than it would for you to learn a martial art.

 

[mahnoorgul]

I’ve done Wing Chun for a bit and found it pretty accessible. It’s not all about raw strength or doing tons of push-ups. The focus is more on technique and using your opponent’s energy against them. So, you don’t need to be a gym buff to get started.

Regarding your mental illness and reaction time, Wing Chun might actually be a good match. It’s more about precision and understanding the movements than being super fast. Just let your instructor know about your situation—they can adjust the training to fit your needs.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm going to ignore all the other things people have brought up like your health, guns, mental illness, etc., and just try to answer your question directly, though I don't think you'll like the answer.

Simple answer, ignoring everything else: No. Specifically the "without too much effort part". You may be able to get better than other out of shape people that don't train, but not the people you're talking about. Regardless of the style, if you don't put much effort into it you're not going to be better than another person that has put 5 years of effort into it, and has combat experience. This would be like asking "Without putting effort into basketball, will training with X philosophy make me better than people who have been playing for 5 years and now make a living off it?

Yes. But again, you won't see the results that you're looking for. The same holds true for people that do Aikido without putting effort in.

Even professional fighters will struggle against 3 people suddenly jumping them. Being an out of shape hobbyist who has slow reaction times means you'd fare much worse, even after 5-10 years of training. It sounds like you'd be better off learning situational awareness and de-escalation skills than it would for you to learn a martial art.

Okay, now for some extra info that isn't a direct answer to your questions, but the most realistic steps (outside situational awareness and de-escalation) to get what you're looking for.

You can get to the point that you can handle yourself in a fight, and be better than someone else you run into on the streets. It will just require effort. That effort will likely incidentally help your weight, and possibly your heart condition (depending on what it is, ask your doctor and take that part slow), just by physical exertion. But even if you remain hefty, if you put the effort in, you'll be able to hold your own against most people, since most people don't train anything.

You still won't be able to magically handle 3 people at once, or beat people with weapons, or people with more experience than you, and a jacked athlete will probably be able to beat you even without training, if you remain out of shape. It also won't be immediate. But the more time and effort you put into it, the better your chances will be, and if you decide to improve your fitness, the more fit you become the better your chances will be.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

To be frank though, if you want a straight yes or no answer, the answer is no. No martial art will give you the kind of advantage you're talking about. From my point of view, it's a strange question, because I'm interested in martial arts from a hobbyist's point of view. I enjoy the mental and physical exercise. I'm actually something of a pussy- the idea of actually injuring another human being is anathema to me, as far as I'm concerned if you can't shake hands with your opponent before and after then there's no earthly point doing it. But based on my 20 odd years of martial arts experience, the answer you're looking for is NO.

 

[Hot Lunch]

If we ignore the mental health issues, guns, or his desires to kick in the teeth of those who harass him; it's never too soon to train in a martial art if that's what he wants to do. But he also has to understand that getting into shape needs to go hand-in-hand with his martial arts training. I've said this many times before: I'd much rather be exceptionally fit and untrained than severely out of shape and trained. The untrained guy who can scrap for five minutes will always be more dangerous than the obese guy with martial arts training that gets winded after 10 seconds.

 

[MuayJitsu]

It`s not about trust. It`s about being left alone. The mental illness has come from bullying I can`t take it I need to be left alone

If that’s the case you should talk to a therapist

 

[MuayJitsu]

No martial art will make you unbeatable I don’t care what rank you are how many trophies you win there’s always someone who can put you down with one punch. Real life isn’t the movies and obviously you have no interest in getting in shape by the sound of your post but that’s a big part of self defence. If there’s some jerks looking for someone to mess with their more than likely to pick the guy who looks out of shape than they are to pick on a guy who looks big and strong that’s just how it is sadly. Also if you are in shape and you get attacked make it easier to defend yourself.. first if your stronger you can hit harder also if your fit then simply you can run away quicker also they don’t just do exercises to look good without a shirt a lot of core work will mean if you get hit in the body it will offer some protection because your body is stronger. If you want to do a martial art go do it good luck

 

[wckf92]

Without too much effort, can I become decent? I mean, be better than most people that do, for example, 5 years of boxing or kickboxing and are now mob guys and stuff like that

Simply and efficiently...the answer is no.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Because of my mental illness i can`t own a gun. I`m not from the US. SO i need some sort of solution of how can i learn to handle mysefl. I`m not a dick I`m polite but other people are dicks and untill they see me pissed of they don`t stop. These are the kind of people I want to kick out all of their teeth.

You want to assault people who have not assaulted you. I'd say it's a good thing you can't own a gun, and you shouldn't be learning MA. Not unless your violent, antisocial tendencies are controlled. You'll end up in prison.

 

[Rich Parsons]

A JuJitsu sensei told me they were doing semi-contact and that it`s good for sports, but for real-life situations, Krav Maga is a lot better. They also collaborated with a Krav Maga teacher from Israel.

So I did Krav Maga for about 1 year and a half I can`t say who but the guy was top notch. So I did it, but he kept telling me that I needed to lose weight, I needed to do push-ups and stuff like that. He was trying to make me into a high-performance athlete. But the health problems won`t let me. So that`s why I was thinking about Wing Chun.

The whole Krav Maga story is got beat up good almost every session so that`s why i`ve left it . He wasn`t a very good instructor I`ve seen a lot better but as a Krav Maga practitioner he was second to none

Hi
Of course Krav Maga is better.
Someone said so.

Your point about instructor versus practitioner is valid. Many MMA gyms start out with people just looking for people to grind in their own training.

That being said, did you notice that the instructor did not hesitate to demonstrate is intensity and intent.
It is the intent to do harm that is important.
If you have not heart ( no pun intended ) to hurt the other person then it is best to leave. And even better never be there.
.
Fill your gas tank at a half. Not only is it better for your evaporative system, and you lose less fuel to vapor, it means for those times you need to drive around a known bad area, there is no reason to stop or take the shortest way.
.
Don't go to bars or sporting events and if you do stay away from those drinking a lot. Somme restaurants / bars on the east and west coast of the USA have started ID'ing for 25 or even 30+ - People above those ages usually do not want to get black out drunk and or start issues. And if they do they go somewhere that they know they can 'get away' with it.
.
Handling gang members. If they are killers, the chances are slim even for top athletes. They don't have the intent for great bodily harm / death. ( Not promoting going out and hurting people or killing them. See local laws and normal social interactions on how this is not allowed nor preferred. )
.
Multiple people are a force multiplier, if you do not have a legal force multiplier of your own then one can be at risk.
Unless they followed the above.
.
Rule #1 : Avoidance.
Rule #2 : See Rule #1.

Avoid the locations.
Avoid the situations. Leave
Avoid getting involved. Leave
Avoid engaging - deescalate enough to leave.
... It continues on and on.
Avoidance.
.
What enables one to be able to avoid.
Awareness. Knowing the bad areas. Seeing and paying attention to things around oneself.
.
To me an no disrespect meant, it sound like this woman who found out in a small business seminar we were attending, that she wanted to take A (Single) class and get a certificate and be Safe from all danger.
Note: She did not want to hurt any one, and the idea of carrying a force multiplier upset her. She just wanted to feel safe.
I told her I could not help her. Her husband understood and got her to leave as she was not going to accept that I could not just wave my hand and sign a piece of paper and make her safe.
.
I waited a bit to give them time to leave. The Instructor said I lost a chance to make money.
I said yes I could make some money. once from each person for 10's to maybe a 100 or so, and then the word would get out, and my reputation would not be good. All it would take is for one of them to get hurt think they were invincible and then bring suit against me for fraud.
.
As others stated always check with your doctor for acceptable levels of exercise and activities.
I wish you the best.
Good luck and have a nice day.

 

[Hot Lunch]

The reason I posted here on the Chinese martial arts forum is that there must be a lot of people here who do Wing Chun. Without too much effort, can I become decent? I mean, be better than most people that do, for example, 5 years of boxing or kickboxing and are now mob guys and stuff like that. And they are evil people and the scum of the earth?

Without much effort, just like in Aikido, can you do Wing Chun ? But I can`t do a lot of physical stuff because of my heart condition, which stopped me from doing sports( P.E.) in school and high school. And I have now another problem which is from college that i take sedatives is there like any way for me to become stronger and be able to handle situations like when 3 people try to jump me and steal my watch or something like that?

You want the ability to defeat an attacker and be lazy at the same time? Nothing in life works that way.

You've been told many times how to become stronger, at least twice by me.

Here's a fact that you're going to have to accept: fighting requires you to exert yourself. You will be using your lungs and your muscles. There isn't a single legit martial art out there that what will enable you get around that fact.

 

[drop bear]

This thread is going everywhere. I have a heart condition and never did sports; I did a couple of months of MMA. I was the weakest one. Everybody laugh at me, and so on. I take sedatives so that I can be calm and not relive my traumas. I think Aikido is pretty much ********, but I have nothing against people that do Aikido; I respect them. There is a pretty good instructor of Wing Chun 1 out of 6 in my country. I can`t ask him because he will be whatever, yes, you can do it.

The reason I posted here on the Chinese martial arts forum is that there must be a lot of people here who do Wing Chun. Without too much effort, can I become decent? I mean, be better than most people that do, for example, 5 years of boxing or kickboxing and are now mob guys and stuff like that. And they are evil people and the scum of the earth?

Without much effort, just like in Aikido, can you do Wing Chun ? But I can`t do a lot of physical stuff because of my heart condition, which stopped me from doing sports( P.E.) in school and high school. And I have now another problem which is from college that i take sedatives is there like any way for me to become stronger and be able to handle situations like when 3 people try to jump me and steal my watch or something like that?

It's relative. If you do wing chun you will become better than if you did nothing.

If you keep doing things that make you better. Before long you will become amazing.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Hello,

So, long story short, I`m fat, and I have a heart condition. It's not a super bad heart condition, but it needs to be mentioned. In order to do wing chun do you need to be able to be strong do push-ups and all those other things that other martial arts need.
Or is it martial art that you do In pairs with other people, and there aren't any great physical hurdles you have to passed in order to learn the system and be able to defend yourself in a streetfight?
Also, I have a mental illness. I take sedatives, which make me slower to react. What are my options? Is Wing Chun learning the whole system enough to beat any criminal, underworld, gangster wise guy who comes asking for it and doesn`t leave me alone?

Few 'heart conditions' will prevent you from being able to exercise and improve your level of fitness. Improved fitness is, in fact, part of the treatment for virtually all 'heart conditions'.
There have been a number of studies involving reaction times and psychotropic medicines. They have shown either no change or an improvement in reaction times. I am not familiar with any showing an increased reaction time.
If you'd care to be more specific about your 'heart condition' and your meds, that might clarify things.

 

[Fungus]

There are different kind of reaction time scores, one relevant for executive control, and also driving cars, involves also reactions to motor inhibition.

Some strong sedatives sometimes used with anxiety or also other conditions improve GABA activity which generally slows down neurotransmission.

SSRT = Stop Signal Reaction Time, commonly tested in psychology experiments.

Effects of Diazepam on Reaction Times to Stop and Go​

"Result: The mean change in ocSSRT after 10 mg diazepam was significantly higher (+27 ms) than for placebo (−1 ms; p = 0.012). By contrast, the mean change in simple response time remained comparable in all three dosing groups (p = 0.419).

Conclusion: Our results confirm that a single therapeutic adult dose of diazepam can alter motor inhibition in drug naïve healthy individuals. The selective effect of diazepam on ocSSRT but not simple RT suggests that GABAergic neurons may play a critical role in movement-stopping."

-- Effects of Diazepam on Reaction Times to Stop and Go

I presume this also make make the concept of "one sun dome" just as difficult as moving your foot from speed to breaking in case of a situation, so extra care should then be taken.

Some time ago I took muscle relaxants for my back, and that decrease muscle tonus, and i noticed that my arms was having spontanous oscillating during pushups, probably as the muscle tonus defines the resonance frequency, so i took a break from it while I took them, just to avoid injury of myself.

 

[Gyakuto]

This thread is going everywhere.

I think you need to ‘read between the lines’ of the posts here - you don’t seem to be able to so I will do it for you and hope it doesn’t appear too blunt:

To do martial arts such as Wing Chun, you have to have normal physical fitness. You do not. Martial arts are probably not for you.

Martial arts require tenacity and and dedication. You have psychiatric issues which is an added unpredictable variable. Thus martial arts are probably not for you.

You have asked experience martial arts on this forum for advice on Wing chun as a means of defence and possibly vengeance. These experienced people have said martial arts require many years of dedicated and hard practise to become moderately practical. You do not seem to accept this analysis. Thus it seems unlikely you would take the advice of a Wing Chun teacher either. Martial arts are probably not for you.

I think Aikido is pretty much ********, but I have nothing against people that do Aikido; I respect them.

It certainly seems you do! A course in diplomacy is for you.

There is a pretty good instructor of Wing Chun 1 out of 6 in my country. I can`t ask him because he will be whatever, yes, you can do it.

Then heed his advice, but I don’t think martial arts are for you.

The reason I posted here on the Chinese martial arts forum is that there must be a lot of people here who do Wing Chun. Without too much effort, can I become decent?

No. It requires a lot of effort. Martial arts are probably not for you.

I mean, be better than most people that do, for example, 5 years of boxing or kickboxing and are now mob guys and stuff like that. And they are evil people and the scum of the earth?

No. They will beat you while they are laughing at you. Martial arts are probably not for you.

Without much effort, just like in Aikido, can you do Wing Chun ?

No. They require a lot of hard, physical work. Martial arts are probably not for you.

But I can`t do a lot of physical stuff because of my heart condition, which stopped me from doing sports( P.E.) in school and high school.

They require a lot of physical work. Martial arts are probably not for you.

And I have now another problem which is from college that i take sedatives is there like any way for me to become stronger and be able to handle situations like when 3 people try to jump me and steal my watch or something like that?

Martial arts are not magic. You’d be better of leaving you wrist watch at home. Martial arts are probably not for you.

So my conclusion is : Martial arts are probably not for you.

 

[Cri70]

And THIS is the part that many don't understand. Even professional fighters - boxing and MMA - are exceptionally physically fit, because they know that their training alone isn't enough to win matches.

Well, true, but professional fighting (1-1 vs another fighter) is a different thing than dealing with a physical attack from a random person to resist and escape, because a random person is just as unlikely to be exceptionally fit or (un)skilled in combat as the average joe.

Combat systems were created for this latter situation - leveraging understanding of body mechanics, positioning and leverage against people who don't. It's not that they make you invincible, but give a fighting chance to people who are more "normal" than professional fighters.

Obviously if you do meet someone that is exceptionally fit or skilled in combat, and you ain't, and things get physical, you will be in trouble - no question about it.

The reality nowadays of course is that's there's guns and more blades than there were in 1700-1800s Okinawa, so unharmed combat can help you only so far, should you be so unfortunate to have to recur to it.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Well, true, but professional fighting (1-1 vs another fighter) is a different thing than dealing with a physical attack from a random person to resist and escape, because a random person is just as unlikely to be exceptionally fit or (un)skilled in combat as the average joe.

Generally speaking, attackers aren't going to be fat and out of shape. That would be as close to literally "bringing a knife to gunfight" as you can possibly get without actually being literal.

Combat systems were created for this latter situation - leveraging understanding of body mechanics, positioning and leverage against people who don't. It's not that they make you invincible, but give a fighting chance to people who are more "normal" than professional fighters.

Yes, but bear in mind that those combat systems teach the most efficient way to use one's muscles. What they do not teach is avoiding the use of those muscles.