Do you agree with his Taiji application?

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yes through data.

But not applicable here.

When you say "data", are you saying, "testing result"? You still need application, otherwise you have nothing to test it.

 

[drop bear]

When you say "data", are you saying, "testing result"? You still need application, otherwise you have nothing to test it.

Yes. You just don't need to experience it. You just need to record it accurately.

And we go back to the Richard dawkins dowsing experiment. He did not experience dowsing or learn to dowse he just tested it and recorded data.

 

[drop bear]

When you say "data", are you saying, "testing result"? You still need application, otherwise you have nothing to test it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yes. You just don't need to experience it. You just need to record it accurately.

And we go back to the Richard dawkins dowsing experiment. He did not experience dowsing or learn to dowse he just tested it and recorded data.

But you have to drill "hip throw" 1,000 times with your training partner before you can test it. You can't test "hip throw" without develop it first.

 

[drop bear]

But you have to drill "hip throw" 1,000 times with your training partner before you can test it. You can't test "hip throw" without develop it first.

Not really and this is kind of important for the sake of efficiency.

If I had to drill every hip throw a thousand times before I could discern the viability of that hip throw.

I would become very far behind someone who Has discerned a viable hip throw via objective data. And is just drilling that.

It is a scientific process I can't remember the name of. Where you can find an answer by trying every possible combination. It is the most accurate but super slow.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Not really and this is kind of important for the sake of efficiency.

If I had to drill every hip throw a thousand times before I could discern the viability of that hip throw.

I would become very far behind someone who Has discerned a viable hip throw via objective data. And is just drilling that.

It is a scientific process I can't remember the name of. Where you can find an answer by trying every possible combination. It is the most accurate but super slow.

But hip throw requires your

- right foot set in front of your opponent's right foot.
- left foot set in front of your opponent's left foot.
- left arm control your opponent's right arm.
- right arm control your opponent's body.
- hip touch on your opponent's chest.

You have to do it right before you can make it work.

 

[drop bear]

But hip throw requires your

- right foot set in front of your opponent's right foot.
- left foot set in front of your opponent's left foot.
- left arm control your opponent's right arm.
- right arm control your opponent's body.
- hip touch on your opponent's chest.

You have to do it right before you can make it work.

Provided it works at all. Which is not guaranteed.

And then you are out a thousand reps.

 

[drop bear]

Basically. You do not need to make a case to prove your martial arts works for you to practice it.

But you do need to make a case for me to believe it.

 

[windwalker099]

What is the theory of boxing jab-cross-hook-uppercut-overhand?

"The effectiveness of these punches depends on proper biomechanics, including the rotation of the hips and shoulders, the transfer of weight, and the correct positioning of the feet. Strategically, each punch has its own use case and can be combined in various sequences to create effective combinations and setups."

Western boxing methods are primarily mechanically based and strategically implemented, focusing on biomechanics, physical conditioning, and tactical execution.

In contrast, many Chinese martial arts methods integrate both empirical experience and theoretical thought, often grounded in fundamental theories that include metaphysical and philosophical elements. For instance, styles like Taiji, Xingyi, Bagua, and Yi Chuan incorporate principles of energy flow, balance, and harmony, reflecting a blend of physical and metaphysical concepts.

The theory by which they work, allows for the development of different methods
external, internal, distinctions used in defining different methods based on different approaches

Each methods effectiveness dependent on ones level of development and focus.

 

[marvin8]

But you have to drill "hip throw" 1,000 times with your training partner before you can test it. You can't test "hip throw" without develop it first.

We have empirical evidence from fights under rules in MMA, Sambo, etc. The head and arm throw is susceptible to the opponent taking your back. It's more successful in women's MMA. Usually, hip throw is done from a clinch. A punch turned into a neck grab is a common entry. From the clinch, there are a variety of trips and throws used besides the hip throw. MMA integrates striking and grappling. Grapplers do not dominate MMA anymore. Today, grapplers learn striking to defend, entry and attack.

 

[windwalker099]

Today, grapplers learn striking to defend, entry and attack.

Not just today

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Basically. You do not need to make a case to prove your martial arts works for you to practice it.

But you do need to make a case for me to believe it.

How often does it need to work? I mean, what’s the criteria? We all likely know a few “ low percentage” techniques that we may occasionally use in some specific situations. They work, maybe, sometimes.

 

[drop bear]

How often does it need to work? I mean, what’s the criteria? We all likely know a few “ low percentage” techniques that we may occasionally use in some specific situations. They work, maybe, sometimes.

That is the whole point of low high percentage. So we have a term we can use to gauge its level of work.

Bear in mind. We are probably talking about works against someone ever who is not your mate.

Because that is the bar that is generally too high for a lot of martial arts techniques.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

That is the whole point of low high percentage. So we have a term we can use to gauge its level of work.

Bear in mind. We are probably talking about works against someone ever who is not your mate.

Because that is the bar that is generally too high for a lot of martial arts techniques.

Agreed, some work, some times, on some people. Usually on people who haven’t practiced or seen that technique much or at all.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

That is the whole point of low high percentage. So we have a term we can use to gauge its level of work.

Bear in mind. We are probably talking about works against someone ever who is not your mate.

Because that is the bar that is generally too high for a lot of martial arts techniques.

Same reason a lot of white belt BJJ guys could/would likely fold me up. However, those guys are not out starting street fights, so I probably don’t need to worry about being attacked by the local BJJ practitioners. Obviously, there is a chance I could/would do something they haven’t seen or I get lucky.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Same reason a lot of white belt BJJ guys could/would likely fold me up. However, those guys are not out starting street fights, so I probably don’t need to worry about being attacked by the local BJJ practitioners. Obviously, there is a chance I could/would do something they haven’t seen or I get lucky.

If I remember correctly from a qinna seminar with Dr Yang about 30 years ago..... he said Chinese martial arts is made up of kicking & punching, Shuajiao and qinna.
Shuaijao is for fighting kicking and punching
Qinna is for fighting Shuaijao
kicking and punching is for fighting qinna

I might have those wrong, it was 30 years ago, but I am sure if you ask him, he will tell you

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

If I remember correctly from a qinna seminar with Dr Yang about 30 years ago..... he said Chinese martial arts is made up of kicking & punching, Shuajiao and qinna.
Shuaijao is for fighting kicking and punching
Qinna is for fighting Shuaijao
kicking and punching is for fighting qinna

I might have those wrong, it was 30 years ago, but I am sure if you ask him, he will tell you

I will ask him. He has revised some things over time. He told some of his instructors that he is teaching me the fighting sets in White crane first rather than later. They seemed dismayed at that because they said they had to wait years to get those. Jess O Brien and one of my other training brothers are learning the two man tai chi fighting set from him as well, even though our Yang long form is somewhat different from his.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I will ask him. He has revised some things over time. He told some of his instructors that he is teaching me the fighting sets in White crane first rather than later. They seemed dismayed at that because they said they had to wait years to get those. Jess O Brien and one of my other training brothers are learning the two man tai chi fighting set from him as well, even though our Yang long form is somewhat different from his.

If he wants to know where you heard that from, he would not know me from Adam. Just tell him it was a guy who did a short seminar with him at Jou Tsung Hwa's taiji farm, in NYS. Way back with Master Jou was still alive

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

If he wants to know where you heard that from, he would not know me from Adam. Just tell him it was a guy who did a short seminar with him at Jou Tsung Hwa's taiji farm, in NYS. Way back with Master Jou was still alive

Will do. He has a great memory, he may well remember you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

He has revised some things over time. He told some of his instructors that he is teaching me the fighting sets in White crane first rather than later.

Forms come from fighting experience. Understanding application first makes forms easier to understand.