You may address the discussion that we have in the "Judo head lock" thread.
If we talk about application, we have to talk about
- technique,
- counters to that technique,
- counters to those counters,
- ...
You cannot say that a technique A is useless because it can be countered by technique B. When you say that, the other will say but your counter B can be countered by technique C and you can use technique A to set up technique C.
I like to get into this kind of "combo" discussion. You may not like this kind of discussion, but I have always believed that MA means "change".
The MA tree discussion can be stopped at the root, at any branch, or even at the individual leaf. How far will that discussion go depend on at least 2 persons who like to go deeper.
A tree root discussion may reach to a tree leaf discussion. If you punch my head and knock me down, the discussion will end right there. But if I can block your punch, the discussion will continue.