Do not disagree vs. agree

[dvcochran]

I would only count that as an option if the content was mainly acceptable/good but had areas that could be improved.

Could very well just be my use of language, but:

You enhance something that's already alright.

You fix something that's bad.



If you have spoiled fish on your plate, you don't seek to enhance it

You were using a form as an example so there is always room for improvement.

 

[dvcochran]

Probably because it's difficult to tell when someone is adding to a comment or if they are actually disagreeing with you.. Some people are touchy so you want to make sure that what you are saying is understood as a general statement about something, your your specific perspective of something. I only started when I was coming here. Martial artists get offended easily.

Well, I have to disagree with that. If the comment says they disagree, that is pretty hard to misinterpret. Speaking in generalities will get you in trouble often.

 

[Steve]

Well, I have to disagree with that. If the comment says they disagree, that is pretty hard to misinterpret. Speaking in generalities will get you in trouble often.

I don’t not disagree.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Positive/negative feedback is an entirely different subject to agreement or lack thereof though.

I personally don't subscribe to the notion of "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing", because that's usually a useless position to take, especially if feedback is being sought.


Let's say I post a video of me doing a pattern, and it's bad.

You effectively have 4 options:

1. Lie to be nice and say "that's great"
2. Say nothing
3. Tell me it's bad
4. Tell me it's bad, and why/how

Option 1 is crap and misleading.

Option 2 is crap because it gives me nothing.

Option 3 is crap because it gives me nothing to work with.

Option 4 - bring it on.


Negative feedback given in the appropriate way has the most positive outcome of the lot.

Option 2 I do plenty of times. Because by the time I see the post, someone has already posted either better feedback or a lot of feedback. Me adding more has the chance of overwhelming someone, so I just leave it out.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Well, I have to disagree with that. If the comment says they disagree, that is pretty hard to misinterpret. Speaking in generalities will get you in trouble often.

Its tough to misinterpret someone saying they disagree. But it's easy to misinterpret a comment, or not being sure if you agree or disagree with it.

As a pretty out there example, but all that's coming to my head: you could say, with no context/unclear context, that it's important to flow like water in martial arts. If you mean that you should be able to adapt to different situations, or take in new information, then I agree with you. If you mean that you should move between different martial arts and constantly change, I disagree with you. Some posters on here (not you) take any questions as disagreement. So I might say "I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but what do you mean when you say to flow like water?"

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don’t not disagree.

Does this count as a double negative, or triple?

 

[Steve]

Positive/negative feedback is an entirely different subject to agreement or lack thereof though.

I personally don't subscribe to the notion of "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing", because that's usually a useless position to take, especially if feedback is being sought.


Let's say I post a video of me doing a pattern, and it's bad.

You effectively have 4 options:

1. Lie to be nice and say "that's great"
2. Say nothing
3. Tell me it's bad
4. Tell me it's bad, and why/how

Option 1 is crap and misleading.

Option 2 is crap because it gives me nothing.

Option 3 is crap because it gives me nothing to work with.

Option 4 - bring it on.


Negative feedback given in the appropriate way has the most positive outcome of the lot.

This really depends on a lot of things. I’m not a fan of 1. But there are times when 2, 3, or 4 might be just fine. Your comment is very egocentric, presuming that the goal is to help you. It also presumes that you don’t have the ability to analyze the feedback and figure out the what/how of constructive feedback on your own.

 

[Steve]

Does this count as a double negative, or triple?

Triple.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Triple.

You want to try for a quad? Does anybody know what the worlds record is?

To keep this fair, I think we should agree that the sentence must make some sort of sense. Not just saying "I don't not didn't not [blah blah]."

 

[Steve]

You want to try for a quad? Does anybody know what the worlds record is?

To keep this fair, I think we should agree that the sentence must make some sort of sense. Not just saying "I don't not didn't not [blah blah]."

I don't think you aren't completely not wrong.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't think you aren't completely not wrong.

That's still only a triple... come on.... I don't not think you can't do better even if you're not trying.

 

[pdg]

You were using a form as an example so there is always room for improvement.

Yes, but I was using a bad performance as an example.

 

[pdg]

Option 2 I do plenty of times. Because by the time I see the post, someone has already posted either better feedback or a lot of feedback. Me adding more has the chance of overwhelming someone, so I just leave it out.

In fairness, option 2 is actually the second best option to choose.

With it, you're not misleading and you're not being uselessly nasty.

You're not adding anything, but you're not taking away either.

 

[pdg]

This really depends on a lot of things. I’m not a fan of 1. But there are times when 2, 3, or 4 might be just fine. Your comment is very egocentric, presuming that the goal is to help you. It also presumes that you don’t have the ability to analyze the feedback and figure out the what/how of constructive feedback on your own.

If someone asks for feedback then the goal should be to help.

I think I see 1 quite often, both online and off. I think it can be harmful to development because after five people have said it looks great out of politeness, someone saying there's stuff to work on comes over as the mean one...

As I said above, 2 - yeah. It's not helpful, but it's not harmful. Who knows how much it happens?

4 is the only one that offers the possibility of constructive criticism/feedback. Whether that comes with an interpretation or not. In the pattern/form example, you can say "the stances are off", or you can expand and explain how. All that gives you something to work with.

In comparison, 3 is literally saying "mate, that's awful". How can that be construed as constructive and how can you analyse it?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

If someone asks for feedback then the goal should be to help.

I think I see 1 quite often, both online and off. I think it can be harmful to development because after five people have said it looks great out of politeness, someone saying there's stuff to work on comes over as the mean one...

As I said above, 2 - yeah. It's not helpful, but it's not harmful. Who knows how much it happens?

4 is the only one that offers the possibility of constructive criticism/feedback. Whether that comes with an interpretation or not. In the pattern/form example, you can say "the stances are off", or you can expand and explain how. All that gives you something to work with.

In comparison, 3 is literally saying "mate, that's awful". How can that be construed as constructive and how can you analyse it?

You stated
"Let's say I post a video of me doing a pattern, and it's bad.

You effectively have 4 options:

1. Lie to be nice and say "that's great"
2. Say nothing
3. Tell me it's bad
4. Tell me it's bad, and why/how"

That doesn't suggest you were looking for feedback, you just posted a video of yourself. Which is why most people would use 2. I've noticed that when people post a video of themselves, vs. people posting a video and specifically asking "What can I do better" the response is very different. Thinking back, I can't recall any videos that you've posted of yourself looking for feedback, so I can't say how you've presented that, but what the person states they're looking for when posting a video has a lot to do with the amount of critique that's offered.

 

[pdg]

That doesn't suggest you were looking for feedback, you just posted a video of yourself. Which is why most people would use 2. I've noticed that when people post a video of themselves, vs. people posting a video and specifically asking "What can I do better" the response is very different. Thinking back, I can't recall any videos that you've posted of yourself looking for feedback, so I can't say how you've presented that, but what the person states they're looking for when posting a video has a lot to do with the amount of critique that's offered.

Fair enough, I didn't add that extra "looking for feedback" caveat

I was self restricting the intent to the "what do you think" kind of videos people post here instead of the "look at me" type - for the purposes of the example. I should have been clearer - thanks for the feedback

That said, posting a video is inviting feedback of sorts - and if anyone feels so moved as to comment, they might as well offer comments that are of use.


And your recollection is correct, I haven't posted videos of myself, of any type. It may happen sometime though and if it does, I welcome any useful feedback...

 

[JowGaWolf]

Well, I have to disagree with that. If the comment says they disagree, that is pretty hard to misinterpret. Speaking in generalities will get you in trouble often.

lol. and there you have it. Example provided.

1. I'm not disagreeing with what you say. (Aka what I'm about to say isn't a disagreement to your statement so don't take it that way.)
2. Based on this comment, you are talking about if someone uses DISAGREE vs NOT DISAGREE.
3. I was only addressing the phrase NOT DISAGREE
4. I AGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENT. just wasn't what I was referring to.
4. Miscommunication achieved lol

 

[pdg]

lol. and there you have it. Example provided.

1. I'm not disagreeing with what you say. (Aka what I'm about to say isn't a disagreement to your statement so don't take it that way.)
2. Based on this comment, you are talking about if someone uses DISAGREE vs NOT DISAGREE.
3. I was only addressing the phrase NOT DISAGREE
4. I AGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENT. just wasn't what I was referring to.
4. Miscommunication achieved lol

I clicked agree because I don't not disagree with nothing you didn't say.

Possibly.

 

[_Simon_]

Some real noggin' scratchers here haha XD

Unfortunately I use Tapatalk for my forums so I only have the 'Like' option available [emoji14]

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I like to say,

- "I agree with you 100% there." or
- "Sorry that I have to disagree with you on this."

I assume I just have never learned how to use double negative. When I was a waiter many years ago, someone said, "I don't want no sugar." I put a lot of sugar into his coffee.

I think it’s often either context (you say something I consider true but not a counterpoint to what I said, so despite the fact that I don’t disagree, we are still on opposite sides of the issue), or of degrees (I could agree strongly, agree somewhat, be neutral - same as not disagreeing - or disagree).