Do karate schools in the US not teach dirty fighting any more or do you have to move to Japan?

[Tez3]

You people are going to make it impossible for me to sleep tonight... im going to be sitting there thinking *gasp* I dont want there belts poking my eyes! (Ill have to wear an eye patch and kids will make fun of me and call me a pirate... or some weirdo with an eye patch)

Just to add to the belt scenario, when grappling my instructor ( a Judoka from an early age) goes north to south and makes sure the knot on the belt grinds into your face, he says it's a Judo trick. He also is fond of choking people with their own Gi jackets or t shirts, he however shrugs down into his Gi jacket so you can't get a choke on.

 

[twendkata71]

I would say that if you are looking for styles that teach "dirty fighting techniques". ( which in my opinion there are no dirty fighting techniques when you are fighting for your life, just effective ones), kenpo is great for that, as well as Non sport oriented Okinawan styles(shorin ryu, Uechi ryu, Goju ryu). Most kata from traditional karate and modern karate styles have these techniques in there.

 

[ozm8ey]

Here in Australia in my class they taught us a move which involves blocking then counter punching to the testicles. Its really effective but if someone attack you on the street you have every right to fight dirty

 

[RTKDCMB]

If you want to learn dirty fighting then I suggest you try mud wrestling, you would get pretty dirty fighting in that.

 

[oftheherd1]

Dirty fighting? Ive never heard that term in my goju class however strikes like some of those you mention are used. I know saifa kata (goju ryu) uses a groin strike and seisan(goju ryu) uses strike to throat. And also seiyunchin (goju ryu) uses elbow strikes.

I have kind of been trying to avoid posting in this thread. The OP did ask specifically about Karate, and I am not nor ever have been a practitioner of Karate. Closest being TKD for a short while.

But to me, "Dirty Fighting" is an oxymoron. In the Hapkido I studied, there certainly was no such thing. We learned effective defensive techniques. Many of them would dislocate joints, attack pressure points, throw opponents in not nice ways, and basically, give we students more than one way to defend against an attack against any part of our body. While mostly defensive, we were taught ways to use some of our defenses in an offensive manner. Nothing to do with dirty, just defensive survival.

 

[Human Makiwara]

I study Uechi Ryu here in the good old US of A. We are taught nothing but things I wouldn't want to have done to me. It sounds like you have been looking into sport karate or taeqwondo schools. You will learn a sport if this is where you end up. Not that you couldn't defend yourself with these teachings it's just that they most likely won't be covering what you are looking for.

 

[Zumorito]

They didn't teach any dirty fighting at my local Karate dojo, but then again, most of it's members are school children with their parents, so yeah...I stuck around just long enough to figure out I'd be better off with Krav Maga. I'm considering taking up Jujutsu too.

 

[Touch Of Death]

They didn't teach any dirty fighting at my local Karate dojo, but then again, most of it's members are school children with their parents, so yeah...I stuck around just long enough to figure out I'd be better off with Krav Maga. I'm considering taking up Jujutsu too.

Everybody has an excuse for why they decided not to train. My favorite is, "I don't need to feel pain to know I am alive."

 

[Juany118]

Okinawan Karate is a lot less popular than its Japanese counterpart. I personally practice and teach these "dirty" fighting techniques. In my eyes there is no such thing as "dirty" fighting. I don't believe in physical violence unless it is your last option. At that point you are fighting for survival and I will go to any measure to make sure I make it home to my family over my opponent. I train in the same manner, sparring is fun, but it doesn't teach all the essential parts you need for actual combat. As a result I put more emphasis on developing my body to deliver small surface strikes as opposed to using my fists.

I think this may define the difference. Karate is a complicated mess, you have Karate-do (which is the product of ultra nationalist Japanese Leading up to WWII looking to instill Tradition and discipline to create obedient soldiers) then you have, for lack of a better term Karate-jutsu (the actual Karate born in Okinawa.) People have to remember Japanese and Okinawan are different over there and Karate didn't become "Japanese" until the 1920's

Sorry very tired and my Ryushinkan training (15+ years ago) is raising it's ugly head.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I hear karate schools in US no longer teach dirty fighting like hitting the persons knees, hitting the persons balls, head twisting,knee strikes to person head, gauging out eyes, choke holds, poking or squeezing eyes, strike to throat, taking your elbow and hitting the person head, holds and chokes so on.

That to get this you have to move to Japan or find a Okinawan type Karate school in US.

I know many Karate schools out side of Japan in the US no longer teach take downs, throws and holds.

That karate schools in US are for kids and teens now and sport schools and tournaments not self defense.

That would depend. One of the instructors at my dojo would sometimes teach us the techniques you described and in addition to some of the stuff you mentioned he would show us knees to the head. He said that the techniques he was teaching us, to use it in the street but not during sparring as they were too dangerous.

 

[JP3]

I agree with Tony. Personally, I'd say that nearly all karate schools teach, at some time, the things which "are against the rules," even if they are a sport-tournament training school only. You have to show that stuff so the student can understand why it is against the rules.... because they are so dangerous.

I teach people "in here vs. out there." In here, we're at the dojo with our friends and training partners, and we don't want to hurt them because first, we like them, and second, we won't have anyone to train with next time.

But, out there, in the world, the simple things you do to keep things safe, you can simply elect not to do and render a technique very bad indeed.

Simple example is judo one-shoulder throw, ippon seoinage. In dojo, strike comes, evade, enter throw, turn hips hold up on uke's arm, they fall safely on the mat, grin and get back up.

In parking lot attacked by bad person, strike comes, evade, enter throw, pop hips to send opponent up and over, back out while opponent in the air and let go, let them see how they do against gravity, they groan and generally do not get up.

 

[elder999]

I
In parking lot attacked by bad person, strike comes, evade, enter throw, pop hips to send opponent up and over, back out while opponent in the air and let go, let them see how they do against gravity, they groan and generally do not get up.

Nah.

In parking lot, attacked by bad person, strike comes, evade and elbow in midsection to enter throw, pop hips to send opponent up and over, dislocate opponent's elbow and pop hips,drive opponent's head into parking lot pavement.

No "groan." No get up.

 

[Jenna]

Nah.

In parking lot, attacked by bad person, strike comes, evade and elbow in midsection to enter throw, pop hips to send opponent up and over, dislocate opponent's elbow and pop hips,drive opponent's head into parking lot pavement.

No "groan." No get up.

I like yours better.. though the 'bad person'? you are certain this was not the guy just bringing your drive thru order out to you?? Hmm.. it does not look like he is capable of speaking to confirm for us! x

 

[frank raud]

Nah.

In parking lot, attacked by bad person, strike comes, evade and elbow in midsection to enter throw, pop hips to send opponent up and over, dislocate opponent's elbow and pop hips,drive opponent's head into parking lot pavement.

No "groan." No get up.

And this is why you don't mess with old people.

 

[JP3]

Nah.

In parking lot, attacked by bad person, strike comes, evade and elbow in midsection to enter throw, pop hips to send opponent up and over, dislocate opponent's elbow and pop hips,drive opponent's head into parking lot pavement.

No "groan." No get up.

True that.

In my example there was a surveillance/security camera, you see.... changes the dynamic just a bit.

LOL! For Jenna's reply...

 

[Buka]

The old cliché goes, "If you find yourself in a fair fight.....your tactics suck."

I think there's some important truth in that.

 

[Justin Chang]

I wonder if Krav Maga emphasizes more dirty fighting like hitting the persons knees, hitting the persons balls, head twisting,knee strikes to person head, gauging out eyes, choke holds, poking or squeezing eyes, strike to throat, taking your elbow and hitting the person head, holds and chokes so on than say karate.

Or is it the family friendly karate schools for kids and teens and the sports and tournament that the problem. And if one found self defense karate school for adults you learn all that?

Or is not a emphasizes like Krav Maga?

I heard a saying once "no groin strike, no Krav Maga!" meaning many of their techniques start with a groin strike to throw you off balance, distract your attention, loosen a hold. Same could be said about boxing the ears, striking the knees, stomping a foot, etc. Having learned some Karate in a few different styles I can say first hand that these types of techniques were definitely taught, but it was not enphasized as much as in Krav.

 

[KangTsai]

Look around, you will find something you like. I'm pretty sure there isn't that much digression/variation between Japanese and other teachings of karate, rather more on the local scale.

And I've never heard of strangling, knees and elbows to the face being dirty. However karate point fighting rules are strict, which my tell something.

 

[elder999]

True that.

In my example there was a surveillance/security camera, you see.... changes the dynamic just a bit.

LOL! For Jenna's reply...

Yeah, as paranoid as I am, I kinda have to be well aware of surveillance cameras....and everyone having one.

Those cameras would only capture a man in his late middle age, falling to one knee under the weight of his attacker.....just sayin'

 

[JP3]

Yeah, as paranoid as I am, I kinda have to be well aware of surveillance cameras....and everyone having one.

Those cameras would only capture a man in his late middle age, falling to one knee under the weight of his attacker.....just sayin'

.... you don't fool me a bit with that routine....

"falling to one knee under the weight of his attacker".... nah....

Hope the local constabulary judoka doesn't see the video and scry a perfect single-knee-drop seoinage....

Then again, judoka being judoka... he'd probably just grin and say something like, "old dude got lucky, falling like that huh."